What I've learned about full-ride scholarships

Parents Forum
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<p>Yep, there are so many factors & intangibles to consider. This is similar to (but in many ways even more important) than the discussion & consideration of where our kids should/did attend HS. For us, we had hoped our kids could go K-12 in our public school system but realized that it was not meeting their needs & they were "falling thru the cracks." At considerable financial cost, we agreed as a family to provide them with private HS (of their choice), where they have thrived and met friends I believe they will likely retain the rest of their lives.</p>

<p>College is similar in many respects, only much more complicated as the costs are much higher & there are so many additional factors to consider including physical distance, climate, the child's personality, the school's culture, realistically what the child is likely to glean from the different environments available, etc. We couldn't decide for our son, we just laid out our financial parameters & worked with his college counselor & let him make his choices that we all believe are good ones for him. He has chosen an "upper tier" school that offered him substantial merit aid that we believe is a great fit for him over full-ride lower tier schools and over the local flagship U where he'd undoubtably be in the honor's program & could graduate quickly due to LOTS of AP credits.
Have no idea what will work best for our daughter who is a rising junior but will work with her to find what SHE wants & will meet her needs.</p>

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<p>What the OP is talking about is an extreme compromise in order to get a full ride for her student. I am all for students considering the steep cost of college today and finding colleges which maght offer generous finaid packages. However as our son discovered, a fine finaid package can be obtained with little or no sacrifice in college academics or overall experience. With an EFC of $80,000+, it would have been challenging to pick up a $40,000+ college tab for 4 years. However we were more than glad to pay the $16,000 per year for him to attend Rensselaer which he is enjoying immensely and where academics are top notch too.</p>

<p>However in an attempt to cash in on that "free ride" how much has the OP's family sacrificed? Nothing in this world is truely free and as a parent I would be concerned about that. Obviously their decision drastically limited the choices available to their student as a hs senior. Being willing to work summer and during the school year(<12/wk), take out modest student loans(<24000 total), and as a parent being willing to invest a fraction of the EFC in their student's education would have increased their student's choices tremendously and in all likelihood would have allowed him the opportunity to attend a "1st tier" college.</p>

<p>And what message is the OP sending to her student? That education is not important enough to invest one thin dime on? That we parents will offer you no financial support during this important time in your life? That money is eveything? That you the student need not invest anything on your college education?</p>

<p>I do not like those messages but they are ones likely to arise out of the OP choices particularly if they were imposed on their student.</p>

<p>Again, the OP chose an extreme approach and choices made at the extremes are often bad ones. A little sacrafice would have given their student very much more and satisfying choices.</p>

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<p>well said originaloog</p>

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<p>originaloog, we were in the same place as y'all. Almost exactly. At least on one element. We, too, were interested in limiting our family contribution , in our case to $16K/year. (Where y'all ended up.) </p>

<p>Through savings and what we can pay out of current income , we felt that was top of the mark for us and may require D to take out unsubsidized Staffords and would certainly require us to sell assets and delve into the small 401K we have. </p>

<p>The difference is , while I was willing to pay this amount and make those sacrifices with a Fafsa EFC of less than I was willing to pay, and a Profile of @$3K higher, *you * were only willing to pay less than 25% of your EFC. Can you explain to all of us what that math looked like and why you aren't as stingy and wrong as the OP is being labeled? We have zero idea what her EFC is. Their EFC could be $10K. Couldn't it? We just don't know. </p>

<p>I think it's entirely possible they would have paid $2500 for RPI (25% of their EFC) had that been offered. </p>

<p>We all look at the choices of others and compare them to our own situation. That can be a real problem when we don't know all the facts.My family might have made different choices had we had an $80K EFC and accepted admission to Yale or Amherst. Does that make your decision wrong? I don't believe that's for me to say. I've always supported your decision because I knew you had thought it out in terms of your family's plan. To a certain extent though, you've always presented it as being a decision that came "from the top down". Ours was a family decision and although I set the upper number, my D made the decision to take a full-ride when there were other great options within our budget. </p>

<p>It appeared to me from the first post that the actions were not arbitrary and capricious but thought out and measured. Maybe not how I'd measure them . Maybe not how you'd measure them. But measured by the OP's family. That's good enough for me until I see data showing that this was indeed a "stingy" act.</p>

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<p>I'm really loving these financial discussions. So much to learn & consider......</p>

<p>"...separate topic -- get a job with a respected "Tier 1" employer and LET THEM pay for the advanced degree!) OH-dad brings up an important point here. Virtually everyone I know earned graduate degrees on the company dime. Is that less common today for young grads? (I'm a bit long in the tooth.) Or is it just because I live in NJ, 10 miles from Manhattan, and there are tons of corporate employment opportunities likely to include tuition as a benefit? Anyway, I'm planning to present that to my kids as a great way to pay for grad school. </p>

<p>"Can you explain to all of us what that math looked like and why you aren't as stingy and wrong as the OP is being labeled?" This made me laugh, curmudgeon. Great point. Sometimes it is impossible to quantify "stingy." You need to be aware of the whole picture to understand a person's motivations. And even then, it's really none of our business.</p>

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<p>SS, Originaloog and I have been around a long time. We are quite often on the same side of the fence. I think if we knew all the facts we might be again. ;) I was NOT casting a doubtful glance on their family's choice and I hope I made that clear
[quote]
I've always supported your decision because I knew you had thought it out in terms of your family's plan.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I am ,though, critiquing O'loog's critique of the OP. :)</p>

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<p>curmudgeon, that's all I was commenting on, as well. It was funnny that Originaloog paid only 25% of EFC, and this was presented as A-OK. Yet she implied that the OP was stingy to limit her kids' choices to full-rides, even though the OP's circumstances were unknown. </p>

<p>Doesn't really matter how long anyone has been around or which side of the fence they normally fall on. I found it funny, and I'm sure I've been guilty of criticizing others in cases where my own actions (or thoughts) wouldn't hold up to much scrutiny.</p>

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<p>Sometimes it's helpful to argue the extremes. Let's see.</p>

<p>I don't know how many people would criticize the OP's choice to pay nada if the EFC was $5K off an income of $40K and they had no assets, no ability to borrow even with a plus loan, no retirement, and a life threatening illness to the breadwinner.</p>

<p>I feel certain that many more would criticize Shaq's decision to toughen the little fella up by paying zippo with an EFC of ..I dunno...a million or two?</p>

<p>What do y'all think?</p>

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<p>I always enjoy these types of discussions. It really shows just how different people are. Not wrong, just different. I fall into the camp that believes that it doesn't matter as much "where" one goes to college, but what one does with their college experience and beyond. An earlier poster made reference to the University of Kentucky as a 4th Tier school, etc. That gave me a smile because in our house, our son's college decision process was influenced in part by our family pediatrician. Our pediatrician graduated from the University of Kentucky with no debt, then went on to med school at Johns Hopkins. His point was that he was able to meet his goals (become a doctor) without taking on much debt. He met his wife at med school, she got her undergrad at Brown for a lot more money than he paid at U of K. Does that make her a better doctor than her husband? I won't open that can of worms! In our case, our S clearly took the "full ride" offer at Furman University over acceptances at Duke, WashU, Rice and Wake Forest. Like many decisions in life, chosing one's college has to be made with finances in mind. Some people drive a Lexus and some drive a Ford. Both vehicles will get you from point A to B.</p>

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<p>Hi cur! Your post does necessitate a reply so here goes! You are correct that we do not know anything about the OP's situation. However it seemed that they did not consider anything other that searching for that "free ride" and thus drastically limiting their child's choices. And it seemed that it was primarily a parental decision vs a family one. That was my problem with their approach,</p>

<p>Regarding our decision, yes it seems as if we were stingy given that our EFC was $80,000+. However one reason for that is because our son had a personal brokerage account amounting to $76,000. We were able to do that because of a gift of $5000 from my mom when my son was born which we invested. Also we purchased a new home a few months before he was born and when we refinanced we took $7500 of the cap gain from the sale of our first house which was also put into his college fund. Eighteen years later, bingo $76,000.</p>

<p>But that is only half the story. As parents, we have a strong belief that it is our responsibility to teach our son to be responsible, independent, and self-relient. We have done this several ways-increasingly liberal curfews during hs to the point where he had none during weekends senior year, if he was to have his own car it was his responsibly to buy it, and made him solely responsible for his college search process. Which gets to the rub.</p>

<p>Because he had a sizeable college fund we decided to make him financially invested in his college choices. We did that by deciding as a family that he would be responsible for paying tuition, academic fees, books and spending money. We would pick up everything else-room, board, medical, car insurance, and cell phone. It was his decision to go on a merit aid quest so that he would have a nest egg come graduation. He did tons of his own research which resulted in a total of $370000+ in merit aid offers. He chose RPI because of the merit scholarships, the academics and the somewhat unique campus culture.</p>

<p>So the decisions were his to make. We did cut him some slack this past year. He moved off campus into a rowhouse with 10 friends and ended up saving $4000 in room and board. We did chip in that amount toward his tuition so that our cost in supporting him was the same.</p>

<p>If he had chosen to attend a college offering no merit aid he would have needed to take out loans totally as much as $50,000+. Would we have allowed him to start out with such a massive debt? No. We would have gifted him $10,000/yr to get him into the $25,000 range. But he didnt know that going in.</p>

<p>Although there is now way to objectively prove it, I think our approach has paid off big time. Our son if significantly invested in HIS college education. I believe he enjoys the fact that he has a major role in this responsibility. He has overperformed academically thus far because he is taking his education very seriously. He is on track to graduate with high honors and accelerating his schedule so that he should be able to complete 2/3rds of his MS degree within the 4 years. And a TA offer is a virtual cinch to pay for the 9th semester tuition to complete the MS degree requirements</p>

<p>I know we took a rather unconventional approach here but it fit in with the values and lessons we want to impart to our son so that he is prepare to become a responsible and happy adult when he enters the "real world". And it is not an approch that would suit every other family. One size does not fit all in this college "game" or parenting in general.</p>

<p>Cur, I hope that clears thing up a bit. And good luck to your daughter, whose next adventure is less than one month away!!!!!!</p>

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<p>Yup, different strokes for different folks. My S is attending a big state u (not a top tier) on a full scholarship. I get the feeling that some posters feel that parents are somehow cheating their kids by sending them to such a school and that the kids will be somewhat embarassed to be a smart kid at a lowly state u. S could have taken his scholarship money to any school in the country (offering NROTC) and he chose our big state u. He is happy there and really proud that he did well enough in high school to be able to pay his own way through college. He is also very happy that the college funds we have been saving all his life (about equal to the cost of attending state u) are in his name and will be his upon graduation to get started on his "real life". Like Curm said, you can't judge another's situation without all the facts. Maybe the OP's kid is happy to go to the state u with the full ride. Mine sure is.</p>

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<p>Given that Shaq's kids would have no chance of getting financial aid, and it is virtually impossible to "work your way" through college if at least some of the cost isn't covered, I'd feel justified in roundly criticizing him as a first-class tightwad if he didn't pay up. The kids would have an unreasonably tough time getting a degree. (That's assuming some recessive gene pops up & Shaq's kids turn out to be short & scrawny. I've heard that being a good basketball player can help you win a scholarship at some schools.....) There are other ways to encourage wealthy, privleged kids to be good citizens who are appreciative of their good fortune. </p>

<p>In your OP scenario, I'd certainly hope the kid wouldn't put his parents in a precarious position by expecting any college money in those circumstances.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
separate topic -- get a job with a respected "Tier 1" employer and LET THEM pay for the advanced degree!) OH-dad brings up an important point here. Virtually everyone I know earned graduate degrees on the company dime. Is that less common today for young grads? (I'm a bit long in the tooth.) Or is it just because I live in NJ, 10 miles from Manhattan, and there are tons of corporate employment opportunities likely to include tuition as a benefit? Anyway, I'm planning to present that to my kids as a great way to pay for grad school.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Even the concept of getting a degree on the company's dime is changing as now companies are limiting the amount of tuition remission they are willing to spend. I have worked for my major corp for over 20 years. </p>

<p>When I first came the running commentary was if you do nothing else while yo work for _______, have your kids and get your education because they were essentially free. </p>

<p>Oh yes, I went to grad school on the company dime and spared no expense doing it (we had uncapped tuition aid plan ) completing programs at Cornell and NYU. When the annual review came, I did not even care how much my annual raise was because I was getting thousands of dollars worth of free tuition and it cost be $100 out of pocket when my D was born. I know people who got MBA, E-MBAs PhDs who walked out of the door the day after graduation.</p>

<p>Fast forward to today, our tuition aid is capped at $10,000 per year and employees were up in arms because we went from no limit to 10,000. I later found that our company's policy was quite generous when compared to other companies.
At my company, courses and degree programs must be directly related to an employee's present job, or to a reasonable future job (i.e., for which management views the employee as a potential candidate) may be approved for Tuition Aid. Approval for a doctorate degree is restricted to specialized fields of study (e.g., those related to the company's scientific research), which management agrees are required for the employee's advancement in his or her current position or career field, and for which there is reasonable expectation that a position in the company would be available requiring the expertise on completion of the degree. In addition to the normal approvals, the organization's vice president of Human Resources must approve doctorate degree applications.</p>

<p>In return for financial assistance, the expects employees who take advantage of this benefit to make a service commitment following the completion of their program of study. If the employee leaves the company before the completion of the service commitment, repayment terms may apply. If the employee discontinues a program of study prior to completing their degree, the same service commitment applies, starting from the completion of the most recent class. The service commitments are as follows:</p>

<pre><code> MCSE and CNE Certification two years
Associate Degree two years
Bachelors Degree three years
Masters Degree three years
Doctorate Degree five years
</code></pre>

<p>If an employee leaves the company voluntarily or is involuntarily separated for reasons related to performance (including permitted resignation) or for cause (misconduct, policy violation), prorated repayment, based on the service commitment described above, applies. </p>

<p>The Tuition Aid Administrator will calculate the amount owed by the employee, based on the applicable service commitment and the number of months worked since the completion of the last class.</p>

<p>At the time of the exit interview, employees have the option of making full restitution for amounts owed to the company, or requesting a 45-day grace period to enable the employee to secure an appropriate loan. If the employee fails to make restitution within 45 days, the company will engage a third-party collection agency.</p>

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<p>Like I said O' - y'all had a plan and it always looked well thought out . I congratulate your boy on his great successes (and thanks for the well-wishes). ;)</p>

<p>I went to high school with a young man whose dad took the self-reliance thing to the extreme, I thought anyway. Dad said we pay nada. I mean no high school car help, no trips, no EC's, no allowance nothing during HS. When college time rolled around my friend wanted Georgia Tech. Dad said "get after it, it's all on you. I joined the service at 17 and I'm now a Commander in the Navy. You can do it, too. Make you a man."</p>

<p>Well, my bud did get to Tech (after CC) on an ROTC scholarship . When I last saw him (at Kareem's last game in Dallas, when was that?) he was a full grown man, out of the service and doing well. He was a resentful man, but he was a man. </p>

<p>I don't think I agree with that approach, at least not for the daughter I raised. </p>

<p>Your approach I could deal with but don't you see how other folks could think of it as less than generous when your kid could have gone to HYP or Stanford or CalTech/MIT had you paid even a third to a half of your EFC?</p>

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<p>Thanks for the info, sybbie. Still a great deal if you can get it, and are not employed somewhere that would be torturous to endure for a few years.</p>

<p>curmudgeon: I wonder if your friend visited his dad in the nursing home.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I wonder if your friend visited his dad in the nursing home.

[/quote]
In this instance I'm positive he did. He was a good guy to the core.</p>

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<p>


</p>

<p>That should read "had you paid $30K of your efc in addition to the $16k/yr college fund that you so wisely accumulated?" Sheesh. Sorry. I KNEW what I meant, I just didn't get it out there. :(</p>

<p>(And yes, I know that the EFC includes the college fund at a high rate of contribution.)</p>

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<p>

I don't presume to respond for Originaloog but, as for me, I understand that some people might question that decision. More pertinent to this thread, however, is whether you can understand that some people might not choose those colleges.</p>

<p>Our oldest son was accepted at a top-ranked Ivy League college and the honors program at our state university. We did not qualify for financial aid and we were happy to pay for the college of his choice. He chose the state university. So I can certainly understand that some people question the decision to go to HYP and Stanford - even when there aren't financial concerns but especially when there are.</p>

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<p>We have more than one set of friends whose children made similar choices, all very happy, all in top Grad or Medical schools, no discernible ill effects so far, ...and in most cases money was not an issue. In a little twist on this discussion, one exception is a friend's kid now attending at a top Ivy who is there because the kid got a complete free ride. The kid actually wanted to go elsewhere (at a cost of about $10,000), but the parents prevailed.</p>

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<p>We had a similar decision to make huge merit/alumni aid at RPI or near zip at MIT. What would you folks do. It is not an easy decision.</p>