<p>I am an attorney.</p>
<p>CD</p>
<p>There are a number of lawyers on these boards (I am another) and several law students</p>
<p>I'm a law student.</p>
<p>Getting back to the original post, law isn't the only area where you'll encounter career dissatisfaction. I know docs who tell young people to avoid medicine (typically because of administrative pressures for more production, huge hassles in getting paid by insurers for independents, lacking full control over patient care choices, etc.). Ditto for engineers (think pressures from outsourcing, repetitive work, etc.) and business burn-outs.</p>
<p>I think there are a couple of major reasons for these dissatisfied practitioners:
1) The day-to-day reality of the career may not match what the individual expected. It's surprising how often people choose careers based on skimpy information (TV, magazines, vague descriptions in career books, etc.).
2) Career realities change. The work environment of doctors today, for example, is quite different than a generation ago, and even more different than a generation before that. Individuals well into their career often find the workplace reality considerably changed in the time since graduation.</p>
<p>Whenever possible, it's a great idea to spend some time in a real work environment - a summer job, an internship, even an unpaid volunteer position. A month or two seeing what really goes on may have a big impact on career choices.</p>
<p>I would agree with that assessment, but was actually thinking about this today in terms of the access to information now, versus when I first decided to go to law school, and how today's prospective lawyers (or others) can make wiser choices. These boards are a a perfect example of that point: "back in the day" forums like this did not exisit and I made the decision rather blindly. That type of uniformed decision-making could lead to a lot of dissatisfaction when the "reality" does not meet the expectation because the expectation is unrealistic.</p>
<p>I think that concerneddad is spot-on. I don't really think that a career in law is so bad. After all, people complain about the sweatshop nature of law-firm work, but the fact is, you don't have to choose to work in a firm. You can go do public-interest law, you can do academic law, you can work in the DA's office, you can work for the DoJ or SEC, for an NGO, etc. etc. The point is that there is a lot of variety of work that you can do as lawyer. Furthermore, you don't even have to be a lawyer at all. I know plenty of law-school graduates who got into investment banking or management consulting, and basically used law-school as a 'quick-and-dirty MBA equivalent'. </p>
<p>So when I hear lawyers complain about the grueling nature of partner-track law-firm work or the boring nature of corporate law or whatnot, it's hard for me to be sympathetic, because their pain is largely self-inflicted. They chose to go to corporate law, or they chose to go for the partner-track. They didn't have to make that choice. Nobody put a gun to their head. </p>
<p>Hence, as concerneddad said, I believe it's really a problem of expectations. A lot of people have a romantic view of the nature of law-work, or they have dreams of making huge amounts of money, and then find out that the reality is more boring or more grueling than they thought. Hence, people ought to get a better understanding of what the various law career tracks are really all about before they walk in.</p>
<p>cool. ok check this out...</p>
<p>CD, dadofsam: what areas do you practice? where do you practice? how long in hours is a typical work day for a typical junior attorney at your firm? do you think your pay compensates the hard work you put in? why did you choose the area you chose? whats the best advise you could give to some one thinking about practicing law? where can i go for more research? </p>
<p>aries: how do you like law school? what yr are you? is it unbearably boring or does intellectually move you? what type of law are you studying? what do you want to practice and why?</p>
<p>btw, im interested in small time practice. like representing individuals or small businesses, not big time boring corp. law or tax law. maybe criminal law but that seems really rough. maybe real estate law.</p>
<p>thank you, thank you</p>
<p>Mr TMan: I practice appellate law, both criminal and civil. I am in a solo practice. I work at home, make my own hours, and have very flexible deadlines. Since I do not employ any associates,I cannot tell you how long they would work. When I was younger, and hungriere, I would work 10-12 hours a day. Now, I work more like 6-8. But, they can still be 6 or 7 days a week.</p>
<p>I am NEVER paid enough, at least for the criminal work I do. The corporate clients pay well, and in a world of my choosing I would do all civil appellate work. I choose this area of law because I wanted have greater control over my time. I have three kids and wanted to be an active and involved parent. This type of practice allowed me to work at home and do things like coach soccer, football, etc.</p>
<p>The best advice I could give you Mr T. is do your home work. Ask to job shadow at various places: DA, PD, large firm, small firm, talk to many different lawyers, and then decide on a practice area that best suits your needs.</p>
<p>CD</p>
<p>I LOVE law school. Granted, finals are coming up - like almost now - and CC is my lone study break. It does not bore me in the least, but that could be becuase I'm finishing up my first semester (I'm a 1L). </p>
<p>First-year courses, anywhere, are all the same - you don't get to pick. It's a lot like middle school. I'm def. thinking about patent law, as my undergrad is in engineering and I love the idea of working on the intersection of technology and law. I might go into some sort of healthcare law - not sure though. I'm open to fallling in love with some non-patent form of law - I'm too young to really limit myself. </p>
<p>Law school, in a nutshell, why I'm here: don't want to be an engineer, never liked the idea of lab work. I took a classics major undergrad as well, and I loved learning about the legal history and how it relates to modern legal systems. Love reading, analysis - that's what drove me to the sciences - very intense and intellectual work. Went to a conference a few years back in which a woman (law prof) was brought in to discuss the legal ramifications of what we were doing - that we needed to have statutes and common law interpreted our way now, as there was no precedent. She said that we would need to comply with space, maritime, and aviation law (don't even ask about what I was working on!). Anyway, it occured to me that we could perform this engineering miracle, but not be able to do anything about it, given the legal problems. That got me thinking... and two years later, here I am, loving all of it. Would rather study for finals and all the hell it entails than be in an engineering job.</p>
<p>Mr.T: I practice patent law and other intellectual property law including trademark law (brand names, logos, etc.), trade secret law (confidential business and technical information) and technical license/agreement law. When I was your age I had never heard of a patent lawyer and did not know any. I was aiming to be a scientist (different sciences appealed to me at different times) and entered college on a B.S. (concentrated) chemistry program. By the time I graduated it was clear that despite my interest I was not cut out to be a scientist, so I looked for some other area in which I could use my degree and supposed knowledge. This field has been suitable for me in that I am able to be around science and inventive people, and work indirectly in science.</p>
<p>Essentially, I have never been in a courtroom except when called for jury duty. What I find most rewarding about this type of practice (and that may be the same for Concerneddad) is that I am able to do problem solving regularly.</p>
<p>I worked for many years as an in-house attorney, that is, employed in a company, and have been in a law firm the last few years.</p>
<p>In a company attorneys work 8 or 9 hours a day or more, as do other employees. The time depends on whether you are in a large company or a small one, with small-company attorneys usually working more because the companies are working hard to become larger and more profitable.</p>
<p>In our firm, junior attorneys tend to work 10 hours a day or so, plus some time on weekends. Yes, I do think that my salary compensates for the hard work that I do, although I have to tell you that there are a lot of people in this country who work much harder than I do for less pay. Some of them are even lawyers.</p>
<p>The best advice I can give you about practicing law is to think long, hard and often about why you want to do that - which is the same advice i would give for any career. In the case of law, think why you would like to do it, which could be an indicator of what type or branch of law you would like to practice. For example in my field, you have to be familiar with the details of certain government rules - in this case the US Patent and Trademark Office - in order to be successful. You also have to deal regularly with the bureaucratic mentaility. If one doesn't like that type of work, then one should look at a different field of law - or perhaps at patent litigation.</p>
<p>I know several attorney who wish they were doing something else. A lot of it has to do with lifestyle issues, as ConcernedDad noted. Others feel trapped by the golden handcuffs. My brother in-law was a senior (managing?) partner in a major St. Louis law firm...got out of the billable hours racket and now is much happier working for a corporation in a non-lawyer-per-se job.</p>
<p>My D is considering law school as a precursor to working in public policy...I'm waiting to see if AriesAthena's experiences talk her out of it. ;)</p>
<p>AAAAGGGGHHHHHHH. Done with my first exam - studied my heart out, and it's rough. Ugh, ugh, ugh. We got one of the traditional massive issue-spotters. While I probably should not discuss our exact exam here, suffice to say that past exams have involved such things as sorority girls running into the woods, stumbling across a cabin owned by a crazed chem teacher, drinking a beaker of something which turns out to NOT be water, trying to douse herself (as the chemical reacts with alcohol to make you want to light yourself on fire), and then being swept away by a flood just in time, to be miraculously deposited on the steps of her sorority. Ours was basically the same thing - seven pages of fact patterns, final question to "advise x,y, and z." </p>
<p>On to criminal and contracts. Yuck - law school exams really do beat anything I've seen undergrad. Still love it though - don't count on me talking TheDaughter out of anything (although I would not suggest going to law school unless you really, really want to be a lawyer - using it as a precursor or a supplement is like going into the Marines and joining their marching band to work on your music skills).</p>
<p>I'm a mid-career lawyer, and have no regrets about having gone to law school. I have grown weary with a particular job, or area practice, and have made some rather seismic career changes a couple of times, but for the most part, I've really enjoyed my work.</p>
<p>AriesA, alas, there are some sectors of Capitol Hill where having law degree is pretty much required or if not required, a huge advantage. I think that that's where she wants to head right now. Thank God for junior year internships so that she can scope it out on the ground.</p>
<p>Btw, AriesA, check your e-mail in a bit. Need to bounce something in your direction.</p>
<p>Sympathies about your final. Sounds brutal. But then, TheDaughter had a week-long take-home test for her Math class...as soon as I heard that she had a week I knew that would be brutal. She clocked at least 12 hours on it.</p>
<p>Hi TheDad...</p>
<p>I believe that some 1 in 12 people in DC have law degrees. Yep - there are some things in DC that require a JD! :)</p>
<p>I survived finals. I think. They are over, which is the best that I can say for them!</p>
<p>Checked my email - but will check again. It was more of a skim. Also, I talked to TheDaughter - the math final sounded brutal, but I think she survived it. She's done soon! yay! :)</p>
<p>Ah, heck, I wasn't going to post, but: MrTrojanMan, I am a lawyer and I too wanted to work for individuals, not big companies. I got inspired to be a lawyer when I worked in a Quaker prison reform group in the 70s. I went to an evening meeting once where Faye Stender (represented several of the famous San Quentin/Black Panthers) spoke and I realized that law could be a powerful force for good. That was what inspired me. Then, my brother was an Air Force lawyer and I used to love hearing him talk about his cases--also representing individuals. (Now he is an IP lawyer for a major company and travels all over the world working with the company's labs on their patents--very exciting work for an engineer turned lawyer!!)</p>
<p>I have been a family lawyer for over 25 years. I realized that I didn't have the jury-smarts to talk to juries, or the street smarts to work with criminal defendants. But family law was similar, in that you are working with one person on the most important problem in their life. I have really liked it, I have gotten really good at it (it suits my personality and my ability to relate one-on-one with people), it has provided a very good income and constant interest--you are always hearing people's life stories, their family histories--and I find even the financial aspects interesting as well.</p>
<p>I work about 9 to 3 most days. Sometimes I work at home, or in a cafe, or other places where I can focus better. A lot of my practice involves writing, thinking about options for dividing complex assets, figuring out people's financial needs, formulating arguments and all of that can be done anywhere. I have my own practice with several employees. (I worked in firms for the first 10 years or so of my practice, then went out on my own). I can almost always be at my children's games, performances, etc. because I set my own hours. I do have trial work but not too often (I screen my clients and don't take high conflict cases; for the most part I have really fine people as clients). When I am in trial, my kids have come to understand that the groceries will grow thin on the shelves, the laundry won't be done, and mom will be on edge and grumpy and late at the office. But again, that is usually once or twice a year. </p>
<p>HOWEVER: I don't know if I will continue working after my kids have graduated from high school in 4 years. I want to travel, do community volunteer work with the elderly, and do other things. Frankly, it is having my children and all of their commitments that have kept me in one place; if I just had my job, I could have done all the traveling I want to do!</p>
<p>AriesA, sorry, I haven't gotten to the e-mail yet. It's not urgent but I do need to "Ping!" you.</p>
<p>Patient - thank you for sharing. :) </p>
<p>TheDad - sounds good. You can call as well (TheDaughter does have my number). Whoa - speak of the devil - she just IMed. :)</p>
<p>And <em>I</em> just IM'd you <em>and</em> TheDaughter at the same time. But then...you already knew that! </p>
<p>I will get your # from TheDaughter when she's home.</p>
<p>I forgot to say...I hope your finals digested well after you were done.</p>
<p>Indigestion. Still processing. It's like having celiac's and chowing on pasta. ;)</p>