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<p>you_eh, sure - no problem</p>
<p>here is your post where you said that:</p>
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<p>you do understand that for senior investment bankers, particularly those in M&A, their work is THEIR REAL PASSION, don’t you?</p>
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<p>sakky, I find the quote above from you to be truly excellent and very much what happens in “real life” out there…</p>
<p>just for the record - for those not knowledgable about Investment Banking in areas such as Corporate Finance and Mergers & Acquisitions, a so-so Senior Investment Banker will still make in the $300,000-$500,000/year range, but the star senior Investment Bankers are in the $5-20 million/year range - and this is in areas that they truly love. However, as you mentioned, one of the most important aspects of the Investment Banking career is the Senior attractive and lucrative opportunities that are available in other areas, should they decide to pursue them.</p>
<p>Global Traveler, I feel you and fully understand what you are trying to say here in terms of the engineering career…</p>
<p>onecircuit, we’ve had one of these arguments before where you claim I’ve said something that I didn’t. If you don’t understand how me talking about engineers giving up their true passion to pursue ibanking in order to make more money does not equal me stating that all investment bankers only work hard for the money, then I can’t help you. Work on your reading comprehension.</p>
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<p>I am well aware of the doors that IB opens. Still, getting to that level whether right out the college or as a professor with tenure is about the same as making the NBA. Needing not only just the grades/school but all the “other” stuff like recommendations, who-you-know, etc, etc is “TO ME” a lot.</p>
<p>As for a $200K…I am not far from that now. I was at $100K after 8.5 years experience and this is 9-to-5 as an employee. Granted, it’s the INTEL world, but it does exist. There are folks like me who choose to be independent and bill NSA at $100-$115/hour. With the standard hours of 2080 for a year, I think you all can do the math.</p>
<p>…with State university schooling.</p>
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<p>sorry you-eh, but I have proven you wrong each time by merely quoting your own words…it is what it is…</p>
<p>In addition, is it really that tough for you to understand that an engineer can leave an engineering job in which he has passion in order to get an MBA and into an Investment Banking job that he has even more passion than his engineering job?</p>
<p>But is all that money in investment banking really worth sacrificing your life for? You know, like that movie with Nicholas Cage, the Family Man I think it’s called?</p>
<p>Unnecessary post.</p>
<p>You-eh did NOT say that money was the ONLY reason engineers would move to IB. He identified it as ONE of the causes.</p>
<p>Just throwing this out from left field but what does investment banking have to do with engineering? I understand engineers are smart but what do engineering students really know about finance and the economy? Isn’t that why we have finance and econ majors or whoever else deals with investment banking? Someone help me i feel really ignorant :P</p>
<p>^^They don’t need to know anything about finance or the economy. They just need to know how to do complex mathematical computations.</p>
<p>aregulaguy, nothing, but that doesn’t mean companies can’t train you in any field.</p>
<p>so as an engineer you have the ability to go into fields very different from what is taught in school? Cool :P</p>
<p>Thank you Inmotion.</p>
<p>oncircuit, that is not tough for me to understand nor did I say anything that would suggest it was. Anyway, moving on.</p>
<p>areregularguy, It seems you really aren’t required to have much knowledge of finance/the economy. At least not “documented knowledge” or what ever you want to call finance/econ classes on your transcript. You can get yourself an analyst position at GS with a degree in English. Provided that degree is from the likes of Harvard etc. (I’ll put sakky down as a reference on that though, I don’t actually know any arts majors working at an IB)</p>
<p>Some of the “high-finance” uses Stochastic Calculus and some advanced statistical concepts as Martingales and usually Math, Engineering or Physics majors are the ones who can probably learn those concepts the fastest. Most business or econ majors (unless they are Mathematics Economics majors) will not take math courses that hard.</p>
<p>I tip my hat off to them because Stochastic Calculus and Stochastic Differential equations will have me reaching for the Excedrin and I was a math major.</p>
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I’m not sure that a reputable accounting PhD program will accept students without an AACSB-accredited undergrad degree. But perhaps you can show otherwise…?
I’m afraid you<em>of</em>eh is correct, for two reasons:</p>
<p>1) You contend that Global is wrong to pursue an engineering field he is not passionate about but never show that he would be more passionate about banking.</p>
<p>2) Since we are talking about students who have chosen to study engineering for four+ challenging years at institutions such as MIT and Princeton - where a passion for math and science can be essential for admittance to the engineering school - we can conclude that said students are indeed quite interested in engineering.</p>
<p>Even sakky has never tried to claim that a passion for banking is luring engineering students away. Really, you could apply any of his usual arguments on the topic here to show why your position doesn’t make much sense.</p>
<p>Sakky, he might have been talking about people in Operations or Technology. Pay in those divisions is good, if I have heard correctly, but probably below what many experienced engineers make.</p>
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<p>Sure. I would argue that the following program is somewhat reputable: </p>
<p>[Accounting</a> and Management - Doctoral Programs - Harvard Business School](<a href=“http://www.hbs.edu/doctoral/areas-of-study/accounting-management/]Accounting”>Accounting & Management - Doctoral - Harvard Business School)</p>
<p>And yet the fact of the matter is, few (if any) of the current students in that program, along with few of the graduates, actually hold AACSB-accredited undergrad degrees. One of them actually majored in, of all, things, philosophy.</p>
<p>[Beiting</a> Cheng | LinkedIn](<a href=“http://■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/pub/beiting-cheng/24/6b9/352]Beiting”>http://■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/pub/beiting-cheng/24/6b9/352)</p>
<p>Or consider one of the most successful graduates of the program in recent times who was invited to stay on as faculty. His undergrad degree is in mathematics and economics, not an AACSB accredited degree. </p>
<p>[Biography</a> - Dennis Campbell](<a href=“http://drfd.hbs.edu/fit/public/facultyInfo.do?facInfo=bio&facId=10677]Biography”>http://drfd.hbs.edu/fit/public/facultyInfo.do?facInfo=bio&facId=10677)</p>
<p>Or consider one of the latest hires, whose undergrad degree is in economics.</p>
<p>[Biography</a> - Eugene F. Soltes](<a href=“http://drfd.hbs.edu/fit/public/facultyInfo.do?facInfo=bio&facId=541710]Biography”>http://drfd.hbs.edu/fit/public/facultyInfo.do?facInfo=bio&facId=541710)</p>
<p>I would also argue that the following is also a somewhat reputable accounting PhD program:</p>
<p>[Accounting:</a> PhD Program: Stanford GSB](<a href=“http://www.gsb.stanford.edu/phd/fields/accounting/index.html]Accounting:”>http://www.gsb.stanford.edu/phd/fields/accounting/index.html)</p>
<p>Yet, again, few if any of the students there seem to have AACSB-certified undergrad degrees. In fact, here’s one of the program’s current job market candidates whose undergrad degree is in math. And, yes, between undergrad and his PhD program, he worked as an investment banker.</p>
<p>[Salman</a> Arif](<a href=“http://www.stanford.edu/~sarif/]Salman”>http://www.stanford.edu/~sarif/)</p>
<p>One could say that it is ironic that many (probably most) accounting faculty, at least at the most prestigious schools, do not hold AACSB-certified undergrad degrees themselves. But what can I say - I did not make the hiring decisions. And the truth is, hiring decisions at those schools hinge mostly on the research you can potentially publish in top accounting journals, which don’t care about what sort of undergrad degree you hold.</p>
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<p>I understand, but to an engineering student currently at a school such as MIT, Stanford, Caltech, Princeton, Cornell, or the like, it’s becoming ever more difficult to make the case that they should continue to work as engineers right out of undergrad when careers in banking and consulting are highly realistic alternative options. </p>
<p>Yet these are some of the very best engineering programs in the world. It is therefore ironic that many of their students choose not to work as engineers. In fact, I strongly suspect that the percentage of engineering students at those programs who actually work as engineers is less than those from mediocre engineering programs. That’s right - less. </p>
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<p>Well, let me put it to you this way. What does investment banking have to do with the humanities such as English or history? Yet the fact is, I know plenty of humanities students who’ve been hired by investment banks. {Of course it should be said that they invariably graduated from an Ivy or otherwise name-brand school.} </p>
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<p>Nah, they don’t even need to know that. For example, I was recently talking to a woman who did a stint as a Wall Street trader for Morgan Stanley. Her undergrad degree was in history. She freely admits that she doesn’t know any complex math, and probably never will. Similarly, I know another guy who worked right out of undergrad for Goldman and then another few years in private equity. His undergrad degree is in political science. What does that have to do with investment banking? {However, it should probably be said their undergrad degrees are not from some no-name school but rather from Princeton.}</p>
<p>So, they’re hired based on where they went to school, not qualification.</p>