<p>Just a thought I had while thinking about computer science. I wrote in another thread that I'll wager more CS drops are due to pointers and/or recursion than any other thing (I'd also say that the inability to think abstractly, to handle predicate and first-order logic, calculus requirements, and a disappointment that majoring in CS means studying trees and searching instead of making video games all day make up the rest of the reasons).</p>
<p>So now I'm wondering about other fields, what makes people drop them? Like everybody says organic chemistry is the big weeder for chemistry.</p>
<p>For physics, I'd bet that (beyond introductory classes), the big weeder is quantum mechanics, but before that I'd say the inability to understand Newton's three laws contribute to most people hating physics.</p>
<p>What about EE, compE, mechE, etc.? For mechE, is it angular momentum in three dimensions or is it oscillations (and the math you have to use)?</p>
<p>Depends when.
First-years drop all the time because they just couldn’t cut it and got outdone by the math, physics, and chemistry series. But beyond introductory classes, it’s not really weeding because by then, you either proved your competence or proved that you’re not cut out for the work. While some may survive the first year without really being qualified, they should (but might not) see the writing on the wall.</p>
<p>After that, the reasons for dropping get far more complex. I suppose complacency could be a reason for those that overestimate their natural ability, but this usually does get resolved. Losing interest is a big one; an engineering education is downright depressing, especially if you don’t particularly care about doing engineering work after you’re done (exception: you don’t work hard enough to cause yourself other problems). That, coupled with depression, accounts for a lot of drops. </p>
<p>There are more reasons, but only a few of them have to do with being weeded out.</p>
<p>As a former dropout turned straight-A student, I honestly believe that beyond a certain aptitude, it comes down to maturity, guts, and motivation. I have dabbled in a broad enough base of classes to have seen material that I had a hard time swallowing. Younger me would have just skipped going to that class or try to wing it on the exam by skimming through the book or trying to learn from looking at old exams. Now I haven’t missed a class since I started back to school and I practice the hard stuff ad infinitum.</p>
<p>The grades when they are not good enough, paired with the work necessary to have gotten those grades and the additional work needed to bring them up. A lot of Eng majors have to switch or they risk losing scholarships or going on probation if they already are not there.</p>
<p>I know one foreign student (from Thailand) in my school dropped the BME program and moved to a school in Japan. the reason was “could not keep up with the GPA”…money was non-issue but the GPA was not high enough for the program.</p>
<p>Well I think the first replier was wrong about first year, all of those drops are due to more general courses: intro calc, intro physics, intro chem, etc. And yes, they account for probably most STEM drops.</p>
<p>But every STEM major has a second-year sequence that is the first “majors only” class where things get significantly harder than the first year.</p>
<p>Being an engineering physics major (so I’m studying physics and CS) I got the joy of going through two at the same time: the year-long classical mechanics/mathematical methods class (not the calc-based physics sequence that everybody takes) and the year-long component-based software design sequence, that was taught in my school’s proprietary language…that had limited support for the assignment operator. Both of these classes were at least one order of magnitude more difficult than first-year STEM weeders because it was the real deal. I’m sure every STEM major has a lot of second-year drops because of these types of sequences.</p>
<p>For the physics sequence, angular momentum in three dimensions was easily the most difficult part of the class and I’d wager anybody who switched out of physics did so because of it (or just poor math preparation).</p>
<p>For the CS sequence, I’d say searching/sorting with trees, using pointers, using recursion, and using first-order logic to describe algorithms weeded out lots of people.</p>
<p>I concur with @TomServo about physics. The toughest course is classical mechanics, not quantum mechanics. However, most of the physics drops are because of the introductory mathematics up to differential equations.</p>
<p>When I was an undergrad at Michigan State, the math courses were what weeded out the CS majors. Back then, CS majors had to take Calculus III (multiple integrals & vectors) and Differential Equations…as well as Probability/Stats for Engineers and one extra 400-level math course.</p>
<p>I started off as an EE major and Electromagnetic Theory was what made me tap out in the octagon. There I was with a GPA not good enough to get admitted to the Engineering college but no interest in majoring in anything non-STEM.</p>
<p>…then Michigan State introduced the Computational Mathematics program. Different college (Science) so there was no 3.2 GPA required just to stay in the program.</p>
<p>It stripped away the theory courses (only requiring Advanced Calculus…aka Real Analysis-Light) and guaranteed you registration into at least Data Structures and Algorithms courses. It allowed me to pick the “hot” CS courses…the ones where the jobs were…databases, networks, graphics, operating systems and skip out of non-income generating topics like turing machines/theory of computation.</p>
<p>I still didn’t get high GPA but hell…I knew that the job world could not just hire only the 3.5+ GPA from Illinois and Carnegie Mellon so I was gonna get a job anyway. I didn’t care about getting 4K or 5K less. I put Mathematics/Computer Science on my resume and kept it moving.</p>
<p>Alcohol and parties… you think I’m kidding, but as an older student and a graduate student I have seen it time and time again with the undergraduates. Some can do both, but it’s pretty hard to focus on your studies if you are out drunk 3-4 nights a week like many I knew who didn’t survive engineering.</p>
<p>In terms of classes, Math for Engineering is what we call it. Basically a speedrun of Calculus, Diff Eq, and Linear Algebera all shoveled into just 2 math classes. It breaks the best of the students I know, you get off track there, and you are in for either a rough summer, or next time you register your end up with all business classes.</p>
<p>Most engineers who actually try at my program make it through since we have a single small cohort and the professors are great. It’s the math classes that have killed many a soul along the way.</p>
<p>Oh, it seems you’re only interested in talking about how hard classes can be. But alright, I’ll play ball.</p>
<p>
You missed my point, especially where I said:</p>
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</p>
<p>The fact is, you don’t ace calculus (and DiffEq) and E&M and go on to fail circuits. At least, not because of how hard the class is. If students just scrape by in calculus without really understanding the material, they most certainly will suffer in their future classes. But they should have seen the writing on the wall, because that’s a pretty good indicator of a problem. Sure, it might be harder, but there is a big difference between a lower grade and dropping.</p>
<p>In my school, engineering requires a separate admissions process, meaning that many of the people who probably would drop never get the chance. After that, I think it’s mostly a function of being able to do the work.</p>
<p>Math is usually the big killer. But it could be a number of things really… It could be something completely unrelated like lack of sex life (ha!), or just the lifestyle. </p>
<p>Engineering requires a certain personality, and not everyone has that personality. And unfortunately, some people don’t realize they don’t have the personality until they are 2 years in to their engineering degree.</p>
<p>agree and that personality is discipline. Its more about focus than anything else. If you can manage to allocate proper amount of time for hw, labs and exams you usually dont need to worry.</p>
<p>@Jan2013 … dedication… the ability to say “no”. If you’re in it to finish it, I think engineering won’t be a problem… need priority and the determination to succeed.</p>
<p>The personality that will say “no, I will not watch tv/play Mario Kart with my room mates, instead I will spend the next two hours before bed reading and doing problems, and try to ignore how much fun I can hear them having.”</p>