I’m a senior, and Princeton recently sent me mail (right after deadline for EA, so I guess they want me to apply RD). Upon looking up some stats, my UW GPA is not very far off from Princeton’s (3.9). My W GPA is 4.57, not counting senior year. My test scores aren’t anything to be wowed by, as my SAT is 2070 (single sitting), 2140 (superscore) and my ACT is 32 C. I was about to throw away the mail they sent me, as I do with all other college mail (especially from those like Harvard, Columbia, and Yale, which are all top schools that curiously sent me mail). But after reading about the great financial aid, I was tempted to consider applying.
Back to the point. My GPA isn’t too difficult to achieve at my school, as I am ranked in the top 25 out of 520, and so many of my classmates are far more outstanding in terms of academic achievement. And yet, there is not a single kid from my school that has been accepted there in recent years. It doesn’t seem as though GPA or scores play that significant of a role in admissions. What gets a kid accepted into a school like Princeton, Harvard, etc.?
I feel the hardest thing about Princeton is its unpredictability of admitting students. Obviously students with higher gpa, test scores, and better ec’s tend to get in, but there’s no secret “formula” or combination of stats that will automatically get you in.
I believe GPA and scores play a significant role in Princeton admissions. They help qualify a student. So unless you have a very special ecological niche, you do need great grades and great scores. After you have put yourself in the running, the other factors come into play.
GPA
Rigor
Test Scores
Essays
ECs
LoRs
I think to be seriously considered you need to have it all. Thousands of students that apply for a 1,300 spots each year have great success with the 1-3, and where the admission spots are earned is 4-6.
Get great grades and high test scores in a rigorous environment.
Do interesting things that set you apart from all the other students with great grades and high test scores.
Express how interesting you are with well written essays.
Have others personalize / confirm you interestingness via exceptional LoRs.
@psywar The numbers are pretty interesting! I don’t mean to hijack the thread, but in your opinion does an applicant need to hang her/his hat on 1, 2 AND 3 to have his 4-6 really considering? For example, if someone has a really stellar GPA and an extremely rigorous courseload, but her/his SAT scores are hovering just near the 50th percentile, does she/he stands a chance to be fully considered?
@icarus29 Scores below the reported 50th percentile at elite institutions are risky. A large part of the 50% below that median are the recruited athletes and legacy admits. However, obviously, not being above last year’s 75th percentile doesn’t automatically disqualify you, otherwise Princeton’s middle 50% for the ACT would be 35-36 by now. But I think that 1 && 2 && 3 are, for most, prerequisites for the (metaphorial) second table.
I think it’s only fair to mention how much money helps - about 40% of Princeton (and other Ivies) students are rich enough that they don’t even bother to apply for financial aid.
That kind of money buys you access to the very best schools, tutors, test prep, college consultants, opportunities like world travel, meeting the political leaders in your state and possibly your country, etc.
Even though Princeton doesn’t necessarily look at family wealth as an admissions factor (unless your family donates millions and millions), money can buy the kind of resume that looks good on an elite college application.
@AroundHere You overestimate the boost for “meeting political leaders” or “world travel”. PTon accounts for the privilege that comes with wealth.
A kid who “interns” at dad’s friend’s Hi Tech firm (because his own dad is a partner at Hi Tech Firm’s law counsel) or gets to work for the Congressman (b/c mom is a big state donor for their political party) or kid gets to do the “island tourism” where he can visit the poor brown folks before going off to ski in Verbier Switzerland – you think Princeton doesn’t account for that?
A sincere essay from a hardworking middle class striver will outshine the entitled trust fund baby, regardless of how many “internships” or politicians his family has gotten him to know.
Certainly wealth makes things like easier solid schooling and getting to play lacrosse – but the kid still has to have “it” (unless he or she gets to be recruited for athletics – another perk of the wealthy)
First, please do not read anything into the letter that you received. Princeton does not want “you” to apply, they want’ everyone to apply. That isn’t to discourage you from applying however.
What makes Princeton so hard to get into? The number of applicants. It really is as simple as that.
As far as gpa and scores not being that significant, that is not true. What you have observed is that gpa and scores aren’t everything; you can have perfect gpa and scores and still not be admitted which is much different than stating that they are not significant.
Princeton initially scores applications on academics and ecs before anything else is read. Although they will read all applications there is a much higher bar if you do not have a high index. If you have a high index you have their attention, but then they still want to know what else you have to offer that distinguishes you from all the others with high scores.
@icarus29 Applications will be sorted by scores given for academics and ecs before essays and LORs are read.
@T26E4 I think the statistics speak for themselves: high school students who are rich enough not to bother applying for financial aid at an Ivy must make up less than 10% of a given year’s graduating class. The fact that they make up 40% of the incoming classes at Princeton, indicates to me that at least some admissions advantages can be bought.
@AroundHere It’s probably worth considering that children of those who are/have been successful in academia/the business world may carry a similar propensity toward similar success themselves.
@aroundhere I understand your frustration, I just think it is misplaced. It’s not a Princeton issue, it is a societal issue that our American education system is not the great equalizer that it should be. However, since your contention is that 40% of the class is from a privileged background, that still leaves 60% of the slots for the rest of us! It has come a long, long way from the days when Princeton was a bastion of wealth and it continually strives for further economic diversity.
@Cantiger If you mean social capital - kids from successful families have adults in their lives who know how to guide them towards similar levels of success and have siblings, cousins, classmates who model how to strive for high achievement, I agree. If you mean that the rich are genetically smarter than the rest of us… uh, no. I can’t really get behind that one.
As others have noted, your chances of admission are much better if you are a recruited athlete. About 25% of the freshman class plays a Division 1 sport. So if you are not a recruited athlete, your odds of admission are much, much lower than even the 7% admission rate.
Around 20% of the total undergrad population is made up of D1 athletes. http://www.princeton.edu/pub/profile/campus-life/ I am not sure the figure is quite as high as 25% of the freshman class but I think it is fair to assume that a few students do drop out of varsity sports after first year. On the flip side, there are also students who were not recruited as athletes who join varsity teams as walk-ons.
Yes, that is why I said 25% of freshman class are D1 athletes (even though the figure for undergrads as a whole is less at about 20%). If you look at the number of athletes on teams in each class the general rule is that the numbers per class decrease significantly from freshman through senior year. For example, it is not uncommon to have 10 freshman on a team but only 5 seniors. I also know this firsthand because I played a sport at Princeton during my freshman year only (I stopped playing due to a serious injury). I knew several of my classmates who likewise played a school sport only their freshman year.