What Math and Science Classes Should I Take as an Incoming Freshman (Engineering)?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Texas A&M University
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Howdy everyone,
So I’ll be an incoming freshman in the fall, with a good amount of AP credits (~70, not all of which I will accept) including Calculus BC, Physics C Mechanics, and Physics C E&M. I was looking to get some input as to which classes I should accept credit for and which I should retake, based on what you all accepted credit for and/or your experiences in the classes.
I was looking to accept credit for Math 151 and 152 at TAMU and go straight into MATH 251, as I never found calculus AB nor BC to be overly challenging and feel confident in the material. After browsing the class schedule I noticed that the two professors (other than TBAs) available are Rosanna Pearlstein (1 seat left!) and Arthur Belmonte. Do you think I should go for 251? Is it really that difficult and will I be missing anything important in 151 or 152? As an aside, I noticed that 221 has seats with good profs, should I go with that? I know 221 has proofs and is intended for math and science majors, so I am not too sure about it. Also, is it a good idea to register for a TBA class? Is there any way to predict who the prof will be?
As for physics, I feel fairly confident about the material, but am looking to retake Phys 218 and 208, for a hopefully easy A. Is this a good plan, or should I skip and go into next year’s physics courses? I know that there is a 2 math, 2 science, 2 engineering rule of some sort in place (what exactly is this?), so would accepting credit be in violation of that? Also, is there a limit to how much AP credit I can accept in general to fulfill ICD or core curriculum reqs?
Not sure if this will affect your recommendations, but I will also be in the Corps and AFROTC. If you want to know about anything else like how I did in HS to gauge how I will be able to handle the courses, please let me know and I’ll add that.

Thank you all very much for taking the time to help me out; it really is amazing to have a community like this out there, and I look forward to my time at A&M.

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First off, thanks for chosing A&M ! Your gonna love it here ! 2nd sorry for this long rant.

** But first and for most **

NEVER TAKE BELMOTE FOR A CLASS THAT IS BELOW MATH 260! He teaches students how to use a calculator more so then how to solve the problems by hand for an exam. So now he just reads the summaries from the back of the book for class for 20 mins and ends early. He is also a harsh grader for your Free Response questions on exams so if you get an extra negative or skip a step he will likely cut your grade in half for that question if you still get the right answer. Normally though, he counts it all wrong. But he isn’t all bad; you will learn more about Nazi soldiers and tear gas then you ever wish you knew.

As far as TBDs go, their are only 4 reputably “bad” calc 3 teachers and one of them is leaving this year, one is Belmont and the other 2 are taking the term off. I would pick TBD before Belmont . You can’t predict professors and times though; its common for professors to switch time sections during the 1st weak of school anyways in the Math department.

You can take 221 in place of 251 but that does mean you will have zero applied matlab exposure going into your upper level classes which is a little scary . That is why they suggest you take at least Math 151 here.

**Now for Science classes . . . **

[/quote]
I know that there is a 2 math, 2 science, 2 engineering rule of some sort in place (what exactly is this?), so would accepting credit be in violation of that?

[/quote]

Well I’m sorry to break it to you but since Physics 218 and 208 were replaced by Engr/Phys 206 and 207, you ** “shouldn’t” ** be able to use either AP credit. (because AP physics Mech for example is the equivilant of 218 not 206) Curriculum will be different; part of it will be traditional phyics and part of it will be statics. If you have AP credit for Chem that would work. Or I really suggest, if you don’t have it, take the Chemistry Clep exam and get out of intro Chem 1 and 2 (unless your major depends on it)

But as you can guess, this makes it nearly impossible for you to violate this rule. Basically it means you need to finish 2 math classes, 2 science classes (which now are basically Chem 107, 101, and 102 since Phyics in now an engineering class) and 2 engineering intro classes (102, 216 and 217) . YOu can only exempt math and chemistry now.

For Math
THey say you should retake Calc 1 for a review and calc 2 at A&M anyways . But I strongly suggest you retake calc 1, accept credit for Calc 2 in the spring, and take Calc 3 (unless your major is electricity related. in which case, don’t take any credit) Most of my friends who did that got great grades in calc 3 because it really is an extension of calc 1 and calc 2 will kinda make you forget about improper limits and vector products and stuff.

If you go straight into 251 it shouldn’t be difficult to earn a B if you work hard. But the fact is most of the kids who make As in calc 3 took calc 1 at Tamu because our professors know what skills are needed for calc 3. For example, partial derivatives and polar coordinates are taught by about half the calc 1 despite them being Calc 3 topics to prep kids for Calc 3 since they know the teachers will not review it. BUT if you read the text book you , theoretically, should be fine because they will skip the chapters in lecture.

IF you really want to get credit accepted though, their is still one loop whole that A&M recommends to students pursing an english minor (since alot of classes are cross listed in the English Department but alot require a U1 or U2 Classification) . You can attend any community college for the summer, have them “accept” your Physics AP credit, and then complete a class that uses that Pre Req (like Physics E&M) at the college and they when you bring the transcript, A&M will let you omit the requirement. But thats about all.

With that being said, I suggest the following your first year
Over summer take the clep or AP credit for . . .

  • Chem 107
  • Engl 103
  • The rest of the UCCs but don’t accept them for credit yet; you never know if you want to take a minor or something that requires a UCC but you cant re fulfill a UCC requirement after getting credit .

DO ACCEPT CREDIT FOR
Math 151 to do this plan

Fall

  • Engr 102
  • Math 151
  • Phys 206
  • Chem 117( Clep doesn’t exempt Lab)
  • UCC (something FUN ! )

Spring

  • Engr/phys 216
  • Math 251
  • Phys 207
  • Chem 112( Clep doesn’t exempt Lab)
  • UCC (something FUN ! )
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A couple things here don’t make sense to me:

  1. What is this about Physics 206 and 207? On all the electrical engineering degree plans that I have seen, none of them required nor mentioned this class. I also haven’t seen anything about taking both Chem 112 and 117, nor ENGR 102 and 216. Would you mind linking me to the page(s) that has all this, just so I can take a closer look into what I’ll have to do?
  2. Are you saying that if I accept AP credit for a class that fulfills both a minor and UCC requirement, it will not count towards the minor? I have AP credit for all of UCC and ICD except one class, so it would kind of suck were this the case.

I have AP Chemistry credit that I intend to accept, so I should be squared away there.
I intend to go into Electrical Engineering and get as much physics in as I can, plus do some geology or astronomy courses for fun. Also, I am going to TAMU on several scholarships that require a 3.5+ cumulative GPA. Any recommendations to help me out with that?

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@glacier47

  1. It is a brand new requirement that isn’t on the PDF catalog yet ; you need to go to the university catalog to see it . Here is a link.

http://catalog.tamu.edu/undergraduate/engineering/electrical-computer/electrical-bs/#programrequirementstext

Here is more. Its a brand new engineering program for you guys that the websites haven’t updated on yet. here is Cven for example http://catalog.tamu.edu/undergraduate/engineering/civil/bs/environmental-engineering-track/#programrequirementstext or Aero http://catalog.tamu.edu/undergraduate/engineering/aerospace/bs/#programrequirementstext

  1. Yes kinda . For example - the international engineering certificate program requires you to take 2 ICD classes in addition to a Langugae course as one of your UCCs. If you accept all your credits , including 2 ICDs, you can’t declare that certificate since you can’t make your langauge your UCC
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And its not too difficult but just remember freshman classes aren’t based on knowing concepts, but about being close to perfect solving the problems. So excessive repetitions with problems is your key to an A in the class to minimize your room for error.

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Just took a look at that degree plan, and I have to say, it’s a mess. The new courses aren’t even on the class schedule yet. Plus, the progression doesn’t make any sense. What is going on over there?

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@lessonwitch2 I am so glad you have stuck around. Please continue to do so. So much has changed, that what I knew is obsolete, or getting there.

@Glacier47 You can’t register right now. You have not gone through your NSC. They will open classes for you to register when your time comes. What you see now is what CURRENT students have to chose from and registration has been open for a long time.

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@glacier47
Their are alot of reasons that they added the classes but the main reason was too many people were trying to “break the rules” that they were taking to make a better engineering department like skipping with AP defies the purpose of Entry to Major. If you notice closely, they also scheduled things like the new Zachery Building to be finished this fall for that reason specifically so I think thats just to soften the blow, but thats just me .

Technically they change the entry engineering classes every 2-3 years but the reason they are not putting much information out right now is because all the departments must release information together . (For example, the Catalog 141 with your degree plan in PDF won’t come out until Material Science finalizes their new major degree plan and Interdisciplinary needs to develop its 26 different major variation requirements to match up with the new requirements )

You guys are , unfortunately, the guinea pig generation . But in all honesty, the curriculum changes every year, but this was really the most drastic in a while. Sorry, but its just for 3 more semesters. And if your annoyed about that, just wait until you hear about Engineering to the X . They are trying to add a lot more requirements to get your degree and maintain 25 by 25.

And @Thelma2 is right; they guarantee to open the sections for each NSC and you will play lottery on teachers. They have changed the teachers and their section numbers every 3 weeks since April so they just went TBD> You will need to wait till the night before your NSC to know for sure what will or won’t be open.

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I was aware of my registration times and all that, and wanted to have everything planned out before I got to my NSC so once there I could just click and go, which is why I am mildly frustrated. Will I be able to see who my profs will be the night before, or will they all be TBD? I have the first NSC.
Do you mean 3 semesters until I reach the end of the new courses?
I imagine that since course requirements have changed, the credit by examination spreadsheet will as well. In any case, I was planning claim credit for AP Chem (which I still can do, as far as I can see) and to retake physics to boost GPA, so that isn’t too consequential here. What does concern me is that I won’t have physics at all now the first semester…maybe I can take Phys/Engr 206/216 first semester and the 207/217 second semester, in place of the chem and UCC I will be testing out of? The new degree plan slows everything down by a semester and leaves a more packed schedule for subsequent years, so I’d like to get ahead of it if I can.

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@Glacier47
Nope ! The honors professors are the only ones guaranteed to be up but other wise it is all up to chance.
And yes, its a 3 coures sequence and, if you don’t meet etam for some reason after the first 2, the 3rd would have to put you in .

And no; the courses changed to cross listing courses. and by state law, only college credits can transfer as cross listed classes. (i.e., you can’t bring in a ton of English credits and get a minor in english because some of the classes are cross listed). Its done so you can’t exempt them with AP Credits.

You can still take physics, just phys 206 (but in order to do it you have a calculus 1 so you need to transfer in Math 151. THe Schedule I gave you above is the one that is optimal for a student who brought in AP credits since A&M (For some reason)designed the degree plan as if you had no AP Credits. Its Common for freshman to lose their scholarships just because they accidently accepted credit for all the classes that would count twoard financal aid .

You can’ t take Engr 216 though (the lab) because the CoReq is Math 152 and pre Req is 102. But you can take Phys 206 without the lab and take the lab the following year with E&M .If you really wanna not take a UCC, you could either do a minor, take Linear Algebra concurrently, or do something fun (and a GPA booster) like AggiE CHallenge (Engr 491) it is a senior research credit and it is an easy A and it is huge project experience (It also got me an interview at Facebook and Shell ) so you do have options for being a head; do be too disappointed. I did it and honest, despite it being a senior class, I really did most of the work for the project as a freshman so be sure its a project you like. It will also be one of your 2 senior elective credits.

Besides, they don’t even have TA applications for Engr 217 or 207 yet so they probably have no intention on teaching it since no freshman should be that far yet in Fall. You can gamble if it is there in spring. though.

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sigh I’m beginning to regret my life choices. Why is this plan such a pain in the *** and who thought it would be a good idea to make engineers wait until their second year to catch up with BASIC physics?
Good, I’ll be in honors.
Math 151 is not cross-listed and is on the CBE list; are you telling me that I can’t accept credit for that? Also, the degree plan explicitly said that AP Chem credit will work for all the freshman chemistry requirements.
What do you mean about losing scholarships for accepting credit for courses that count towards financial aid? I’m not on any form of need-based aid, so does this still apply to me?
I do want to take a UCC, ARCH 249 specifically.

By the way, how do you know all of this?

1 Like
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Let me clarify, the classes you cannot take credit for that are cross listed are only your physics classes because they’re crossed listed with your intro engineering classes. The ones that say phys / engr / are the ones that count as cross-listed. There’s a few more when you get to upper level classes but that’s basically what cross listed means.

So math and chemistry are fine to AP out. They’re going to tell you not to do it if it means you might not have 12 hour minimum, but you can AP out. You just need a class to replace it.

Do you have no need based Aid than it does not apply to you! But check if your core scholarships are prorated because if it is prorated it will just reduce your award potentially.

I know all this because I work in the admissions Department this year with the advisors and I have a strong knack for running in to ways to break the rules.

And as far as basic physics goes, your electrical engineering classes will do more with electricity and control and Theory and for the first two years anyways so it’s not like you’re going to feel behind and basic requirements. Actual physics E&M is not necessarily what you do most of the time in electrical engineering so doesn’t put you too far behind.

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Alright got it, it’s just that on the above schedule you indicated I should take Math 151 and the Chem lab courses, which lead me to believe I could not take AP credit for them. Also for clarification, I am looking to take a full 15+ hour course load each semester. I just wanted to have one or two open slots to get the last of my requirements out of the way, get ahead in my degree plan, and/or take GPA boosting courses. I’ll find something to fill in the gaps.
Let me go ahead and ask a couple other things:

  1. What is the best way to decide if I like a certain major? I wanted to do ELEN, but may switch to MSEN if I don’t find the subject matter interesting.
  2. If I took AP Chem in 10th grade, should I retake the course or can I get by just reviewing concepts as I go?
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I’m sorry I fell asleep!

Apologies, let me redraft that, that was if you didn’t have AP Credit for both chemistries. What was your score on the AP Chem exam?

Now if your bringing in a lot of credits , i assume you are aware you won’t be taking 15 hr loads each semester. I’m taking a double minor and I’m doing 13 hr semesters after this fall for the rest of college. The only solution if you really wanted to do 15 hours is to take on a minor or certificate. My project Managmenet minor has been a ton of fun. They recommend first year cadets don’t do more then 4 you classes and a Lab total if they can help it and, with how many cadets drop engineering, I understand that.

Now Msen and Elen are very different in terms of degree requirements with only math, UCCs and Engr 482 as over lap. You could not take classes to get ahead in either degree plan without taking classes that won’t count for your other degree plan. Students like you normally take a minor if you need a 15 hour semester (But then again, I don’t commonly hear students like you in the corp) You could take the MSEN 222 class for a taste of Mat Sci or try research.

Btw, this course list is tentative; but if you really need 15 hours, you may be forced to retake chemistry. The new program is designed so some majors can’t let you take classes early in your degree plan (Ecen is one of them) But unfortunalty, 12 hr semesters is all you have access to if you want to do Ecen. Msen can give you more classes if you want for 15.

Fall
2- Engr 102
4- Math 151
3- Phys 206
3- UCC (something FUN ! )

Spring

  • Engr/phys 216
  • Math 251
  • Phys 207
  • UCC (something FUN ! )

In my opinion, the best way to chose a major is to do a project relevant to that major. For example, their is program called Aggies Invent where people engineer a solution to a porblem in 48 hours. Often people chose to develop solutions that are electrical engineering based or chemical engineering based or mechanical etc. And, in my opinion , seeing what kinds of projects you like producing an invention for would be a great major .

  1. Chem 107 is not exactly AP Chem; depending on your teacher, you may learn Organic Chem chapters or Physical chem chapters or calculus applied topics. You can retake it,

By the way, don’t think an engineering degree is about taking a certain number of classes to graduate; the way that pre reqs are set up its not uncommon for students to have 9 hr semester due to pre reqs and declaring a minor to keep scholarships . (Btw, check if your scholarships are prorated; cadets scholarships typically aren’t but any others you have may be )

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Hey guys, hope you don’t mind me budding into your convo… @lessonwitch2 It’s nice to get your prospective, since you are a current student. I’m a little confused about your discussion about math. My son is an incoming Physics major and he is under the understanding that he can’t choose which math to take, but rather it all depends on what he is placed in based on the MPE. Is that correct? I’m also wondering about the Engineering school’s new physics requirements in regards to class sizes. Do you think PHYS 208 and 218 will be smaller now that engineering students will take PHYS 206 and 216? Thanks for your insight! :slight_smile:

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Tha MPE exam really only tells you if you are ready for 151 or need a lower level. If you pass the MPE then you have the option of using ap credit to avoid 151 and/or 152.
As far as the class sizes for 208 and 218, my guess is that they will just offer fewer sections of those classes rather than have the classes themselves smaller.

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@trish02

The MPE is a test they take to recommend which math class they should take. So if you say were to fail the MPE (score 12 pt or less) they would make you take a Trig Class, if you earn an average score(12 to 22 I believe) , you would take Pre Calculus, and if you earn above that (23 to 33) you get advised to take Calc 1.

Their are plenty of students who take the MPE and don’t follow the advice thy are given. Some people earning a 20 or 21 just accept high school math credits (if they have them) and simply move on to the next math class.

And not really in my opinion. Because their are still students like me who have neglected to take one of the two physics. When I took Mechanics my classes were full of Juniors and seniors from all kinds of majors like architecture and Ag in addition to the Science majors. But they will probably offer less sections since they still need to move teachers to teach phys 206.

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Can you take PHYS206 concurrently with MATH151. I thought MATH151 was a prereq?