<p>Almost any minor could be useful for a CS major. I don’t see any problem with a poli sci minor if it interests him. Especially in combination with some statistics classes, I can envision some cool combinations involving empirical political science, or career opportunities writing software for government applications.</p>
<p>If there was any interest in it, I think psychology would be an interesting area of study for a comp sci student, especially regarding human factors and AI.</p>
<p>I have been writing software for over 30 years, worked for 9 different companies in completely unrelated industries. I have never ever needed using any kind of math. I am very strong in math (as I used to be an engineer) and was able to help my D. all thru Calc if she had any questions. My knowledge of math is NOT used anyhow in writing programs (in several languages).</p>
<p>Miami…USING your math in your job really is not the discussion here…it’s how will the COURSES mesh in a college curriculum. Are you saying that you didn’t have to take math courses to get a degree in Computer Science?</p>
<p>Here is my suggestion about a minor. Let your kiddo start college. He will be taking many different kinds of courses…and more than likely something he takes will morph into a minor or second major. Our DD who was an engineering major went with NO INTENTION of having a minor of any kind (not required by her school…most do not require a minor)…or a second major. BUT by the time she was done with her first term junior year, it became very clear that she already HAD the courses for a biology minor and could have a double major by taking only a couple of additional unplanned for courses (which she did). </p>
<p>It was all based on her interests in her college studies…not some notion about what would be a “good minor” with her engineering degree.</p>
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<p>This is a good question, the answer to which could help him decide what minor to attempt. For example, if he wanted to work in the business world, an econ minor would be nice.</p>
<p>My brother used to recruit engineers for a giant American company. When current college students would ask him what classes to take if they had extra time in their schedules, he would tell them to take English/writing classes. His point was that the best ideas in the world don’t get any traction if you can’t communicate them effectively.</p>
<p>“Are you saying that you didn’t have to take math courses to get a degree in Computer Science?” </p>
<p>-Exactly. They are not required, needed. But math is not the problem with me, it is very easy for me and I had plenty doing engineering. Tons of high level math is absolutely required for any engineering degree and much more so for EE.</p>
<p>^^^ I agree, base it on interests; no one else will care. As a former hiring manager, I can’t imagine a minor being a tipping factor. Take classes that are fun and interesting!</p>
<p>Miamadad</p>
<p>You must have graduated awhile ago. Every single degree plan at EVERY college we are looking at has TONS of math.</p>
<p>Maybe some clarification is needed re majors. Our kids recently graduated (from two different selective schools) with degrees in Psych and Art History, neither ever taking a math course; the closest was a stats course for Psych.</p>
<p>I think he should minor in whatever interests him and that is practical to achieve with his degree plans - i.e. the courses to complete it,including the HW for the difficulty of the courses, fit within his schedule. </p>
<p>I don’t think most employers of CS grads are too concerned what minor they receive or whether they receive a minor at all. They’re hiring the person mostly because of their CS major. There may be some cases where the employer may notice a particular minor of a candidate if it was a good fit for their particular field but I think most of the ‘soft’ majors (philosophy, history, etc.) aren’t significant from the employment perspective but should be pursued if the student has an interest in any of those areas. It’s good to develop interests.</p>
<p>I don’t see why an employer would pay any attention to the math minor for a CS major since at the majority of colleges the CS major has already taken so much math that the minor becomes just a technicality of maybe taking a couple of additional courses.</p>
<p>So I think he might want to look at this minor differently - unless he has a minor in mind that would help him with a particular industry (maybe CS+Chemistry, or CS+accounting, etc.) then the major reason to take the minor is to satisfy his own interests and expand his knowledge - not a bad reason to take a minor.</p>
<p>Maybe not for me, because I already had much more than any major would require as I was coming from EE. CS at any school would not require near as much as engineering at any school, I can guarantee you that. But anyway, you take math if it is required or you personally love it and do not take it if neither is the case. I am not sure what is the argument here. However, it is a good idea to keep in mind that if you are taking anything for your future job, MATH IS NOT NEEDED FOR WRITING SOFTWARE. This is the only point I would like to make as the one who has been enjoying writing computer programs for over 30 years. It is a great fun, feels like a game. If you love to play, you will enjoy it. Again, the most important skill is communication skills. Yes, ability to think logically is needed. But byt the time you enter college, you either have it or not. As one prof. in one of my computer classes pointed out, this is getting to the very low point and it does have to do with teaching math in k -12, college age is way way too late, no Calc class will train your brain at this point, it will simply not substitute the years of proper math instruction during k -12, and most important even way before HS. Try to learn new language after certain age, it is almost impossible to get rid of accent. Brain has certain ability up to certain age and nothing we can do to change it. Math instructions in american k-12 is horrible, it is at much lower level than in most other countires.</p>
<p>MiamiDap “Maybe not for me, because I already had much more than any major would require as I was coming from EE. CS at any school would not require near as much as engineering at any school, I can guarantee you that. But anyway, you take math if it is required or you personally love it and do not take it if neither is the case. I am not sure what is the argument here. However, it is a good idea to keep in mind that if you are taking anything for your future job, MATH IS NOT NEEDED FOR WRITING SOFTWARE.”</p>
<p>Actually there are quite a few programs where the CS degree requires a lot of math. For example, Virginia Tech requires the following: Calc I, Calc II, Calc III, Linear Algebra, Vector Geometry, Discrete Math & Logic, Differential Equations, and Combinatorics. The EE degree does not require Discrete Math or Combinatorics but does add an extra math elective. The colleges will make clear in their presentations that they consider computer science to be more inclusive than programming. I agree with you that math is not needed for writing software programs (except in those situations where you are responsible for creating an algorithm). Many types of programming will never involve math.</p>
<p>Georgia Tech also has a math-intensive CS degree. In contrast, University of Maryland requires only Calc I and II + one math elective (usually linear algebra). They include some combinatorics in their CS classes.</p>
<p>“except in those situations where you are responsible for creating an algorithm”
-program is a combination fo algorithms, yes, programmer is responsible for creating them as part of the program, and it has nothing to do with math. sorry for being repeatitive. If degree requires taking math, than there is nothing open for discussion as there is no choice, got to take it. No CS math will be at the same level as math for engineers and CS majors are not required to be particularly good with math which is a must for engineers.</p>
<p>MiamiDap - “No CS math will be at the same level as math for engineers and CS majors are not required to be particularly good with math which is a must for engineers.”</p>
<p>The CS majors are in the same math classes as the other engineers and they take additional ones that the engineers do not. For some programmers all of those math classes aren’t going to be necessary. But they are very much necessary for other computer scientists. From posters on the engineering board (I can’t recall the exact contributor): </p>
<p>How do these courses tie in to computer science and software?</p>
<p>Cryptology (the practice and study of techniques for secure communication) usually requires some knowledge of both number theory and abstract algebra.</p>
<p>Linear Algebra is probably one of the most important math courses for any engineer or scientist. Many engineering/CS areas rely on linear algebra including operations research, scientific software development and computer graphics.</p>
<p>Combinatorics and Graph Theory applies to areas like network design. You really get into the nitty-gritty when taking junior/senior-level courses in Combinatorics and Graph Theory.</p>
<p>Numerical analysis goes over the computational aspects of topics that you covered in your Calculus, Linear Algebra and Differential Equation courses (both ordinary and partial). Numerical Analysis is the foundation for scientific software development.</p>
<p>Depending on the school, courses in cryptology, numerical analysis, combinatorics, graph theory and computational linear algebra are part of both the CS and Math departments.</p>
<p>Another Computer scientist commented:</p>
<p>All of the math topics you have listed are certainly within the realm of what a computer scientist/software engineer might find useful. Of them, I would say that combinatorics and abstract algebra are probably the most aligned with software development, followed by linear algebra and number theory, followed by numerical analysis/methods and differential equations. Note that to study numerical analysis/methods, typically both linear algebra and differential equations will be indispensable. Generally speaking, the more math you take as a CS major, the better off you are. Taking math courses not only teaches you about the content of the course, but it increases mathematical maturity, which may be the most important benefit of courses like differential equations (which is not all that compatible with the content of core computer science topics).</p>
<p>My Dad had a university degree in math, in the days before computers, but he worked in/on computers his entire life including most of his years on space & defense related applications, satellites, space shuttle, etc. I always perceived his math knowledge to be a great help in what he did.</p>
<p>There are specialists and exceptions, but mainstream CS practitioners generally won’t use algebra, calculus and related fields in their computer technology careers. CS involves other fields, like information theory, network protocols, database management, graphics processing. Engineers, chemists, physicists, biologists, mathematicians, etc., all use computers in their jobs, but they’re not the ones who build the computer systems.</p>
<p>I would add that linguistics is also a good compliment for CS.</p>
<p>Count me as another CS professional (B.Sc. 1970s, M.Sc. 1990s) who works in the high-tech end of the industry and is highly disgruntled with these blithe assertions that math is not relevant to creating computer software. It’s not needed for all software development, of course, but there’s plenty for which some math is very important.</p>
<p>My son is wanting to Major in Computer Information Systems. His desire is to work with the Department of Defense, FBI, or CIA. From research we have done, they are begging for strong STEM students to go into this field and they have scholarships available too or employee reimbursement for student loans.</p>
<p>To go with this, my son plans to double major in CIS and International Relations. A foreign language, especially Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Arabic, etc, would also be very helpful.</p>
<p>The field seems to be wide open either working for the government for stability or freelance for more money.</p>
<p>“assertions that math is not relevant to creating computer software”</p>
<p>I wonder if we need to distinguish a bit re what kind of math and what kind of software. Generally speaking, what subjects that a college math major learns are needed to be able to work effectively in the computer science industry? When is high school math sufficient? E.g., some applied math knowledge is needed to implement computer cryptography. What are some other examples?</p>
<p>Employers are desparate for people with good communication skills to go along with their CS skills. Regardless of whether it is part of a minor or not, I recommend that students try to take a course that lets them learn to make oral presentations and a course or two where they do substantial writing. Some programs require a minor–anything the student likes is fine. (BTW, I’m a CS prof)</p>