What Papers Do Students Write in School These Days?

Parents Forum
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<p>Hi, everyone, </p>

<p>I recall that a parent posted a link recently to a news story about how often term papers are required of college students these days. It seems that today going to college involves less writing than it did in my generation. Does that square with your observation? </p>

<p>And how about high school? Do high school students have to write research papers for their high school classes? How long are the papers? What are the rules about sources the students may use for their papers? I'm wondering how much writing emphasis there is in current schools. </p>

<p>Thanks for any information you have.</p>

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<p>I'm in IB so it's different than for a lot of people, but all we do is write LOL Starting in tenth grade, all the history exams are essays, and we have internal assessments which in 90% of classes are written research papers. And of course the Extended Essay but ours is supposed to to be finished in a week so I just won't go into that one...we also have to write up 15 pages of CAS reports on our activities.</p>

<p>Edit: I realize I left some of your questions. As for sources, we use MLA format. MLA uses internal citations rather than footnotes. So if I were citing a quote I'd do. Blah blah blah "blah blah" blah (Doe 15). And then there's a works cited page at the end that goes in alphabetical order by author. The citation format just gives as much info about the work as possible. The general format for a book is author last name, autho first name. Title of work (underlined). Place of publication: publisher, date. </p>

<p>We have to use reliable sources, so no wikipedia. For history papers they usually approve certain historian's work, we know the big ones for what we're studying. Otherwise we're supposed to use the databases that the school subscribes to.</p>

<p>Our papers are usually 2000 words, 1000 for a smaller assignment, although the extended essay is 4000 for the body, not including the abstract and everything else you have to write up for appendi. For timed in class essays in history, we get 55 minutes and I usually write three lined pages front and back. In english we get 90 minutes for timed essays but I usually write the same amount because I feel like I have less to say there. Our TOK essays are 1200-1800 words.</p>

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<p>My children have all been far more heavily engaged in writing than I ever was. It's fairly common for AP courses to require multiple papers, including two or more that rival what I was required to produce many years later in college.</p>

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<p>All programs have diferent requirements of course but the big paper kids in our district have to do is called the Senior Exit paper. Every kid has to do it to graduate. It starts in the Jr. year with the writing of a research paper on a topic approved by the Eng. teacher. They have to turn in 6o note cards of research notes. The paper must be at least 6 pages in length and is graded by teachers other than the students Eng. teacher. In the Sr. year, the project continues with the student preparing a "product" to illustrate points made in the paper and then presenting their project in a 10 minute presentation to a panel of community volunteers (none can be teachers or parents of seniors who may know the presenter).</p>

5

<p>
[quote]
It seems that today going to college involves less writing than it did in my generation. Does that square with your observation?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I think it is highly dependent on the college.</p>

<p>In many good liberal arts colleges, homework assignments in proof-based courses for freshman and sophomore math majors now require a clear and well-written mathematical expository style "suitable for publication in a math journal." (Students often have the option of handwriting or LaTeXing their work, but in either event the requirement for well-written mathematical exposition is high.)</p>

<p>See, for example, this widely cited reference:
<a href="http://server1.fandm.edu/departments/Mathematics/writing_in_math/guide.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://server1.fandm.edu/departments/Mathematics/writing_in_math/guide.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>And it's not only liberal arts colleges that require such writing. I know a community college physics professor who requires students to type their weekly lab reports for his calculus-based physics class as well-written papers, written in a style suitable for publication in a professional journal. This is a first-year physics course required of all science majors at the community college. (Just a few years ago, the exact same physics course was taught by another professor who simply had the students write short answers directly in their lab reports--she did not even require complete sentences, let alone essay-style reports!)</p>

<p>Many colleges have wholeheartedly adopted WAC (writing across the curriculum) and they expect students to use and develop expository writing skills in all majors, starting from their freshman year.</p>

<p>It is taxing to grade, but enormously valuable for the students.</p>

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<p>In high school, my children had most of their papers in English class. They had about 4-6 short papers/year and one longer research paper in Jr. and Sr. years (those were 12+ pages).</p>

<p>In college, my kids do much more writing than I ever did. I thought perhaps it was due to the fact that writing (technical aspect) is much more easily accomplished with computers than it was back in my day with manual typewriters and no white out allowed. All 3 of my kids have attended schools with smaller class sizes which may be why they have had many papers. I was amazed last year with S2's bio lab reports--they averaged 8-12 pages, with minimum of 8 sources. Back when I was in school our lab write-ups were extremely simplified explanations of just what we did in the experiment. He had one of these reports due per week, plus papers for English, Spanish and other classes.</p>

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<p>Cross-posted with wisteria. Yes, that is what I've been seeing. The writing for science classes is at a publication level beginning in freshman year. It is great experience and they will be well prepared for grad school ;).</p>

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<p>I don't think there is less writing required in college now than when I attended. There are shorter but more frequent papers. however. This applies to introductory courses. I believe the requirements for upper-level courses have remained pretty constant. </p>

<p>For example, there are frequent response papers which were unknown when I was in college. The norm then was one single term paper of 15-20 pages. The response papers can be anywhere from one page to 5-8 pages long, can be assigned twice per term or as often as every week or every other week. The shorter response papers are often combined with a longer term paper (10-12 pages). </p>

<p>My S has had several courses so far, all introductory, in which a couple of response papers of 5-8 pages are required. If he were to take an upper-level course, I would expect him to be assigned longer papers. Undergraduate seminars, for example, would probably require papers of 25-30 pages (but no exams). My S has had final projects for some of his math and science classes that were about 8-10 pages long.</p>

<p>When he was in high school, he took some enrichment classes to supplement his heterogeneous 9th and 10th grade classes (now eliminated). He did most of his writing in those classes (2 papers per semester in each of the classes). His AP-USH class had a final project; I recall vaguely that the paper he wrote was about 12-15 pages (may be more). For AP-English, he did not have a final project but he had frequent writing assignments</p>

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<p>My high school son wrote 13 short papers in his English class this year--most of them in class or during study period. His three hour external final exams are a series of essay questions--graded by national judges.</p>

<p>My college son wrote a 15 page paper for his 400 level course on a new Economic Conservancy policy he had worked on for his job. He thought the paper was given an inflated grade--one that he wouldn't have received at his home university.</p>

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<p>In my humanities classes last year (a year-long required sequence for freshmen), we wrote 2 or 3 papers per quarter, mostly in the 4-6 page range. Since the classes I was in were philosophy classes, citation standards were pretty lax, a lot of what we were writing was our own ideas. And when there was material to be cited, it was usually when the paper was analyzing and criticizing the work of one particular philosopher, so the sources were obvious enough not to need citation.</p>

<p>I also had to take an intro to writing and rhetoric class last year that required one 6-8 page (I think) paper and one 12-15 page paper. I got lucky with that; most of the other sections required an additional 8-10 page paper. The first of those was more analysis-type, but the second was a full-fledged research paper. My writing/rhetoric class this year is more focused on oral presentations, so we only write one 5-page paper and one 10-page paper.</p>

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<p>Thanks for all the detailed responses about high school and college writing as you have observed it. I didn't consider the possibility that certain disciplines may be INCREASING writing requirements by comparison to the 1970s, as my college major was in a humanities discipline with plenty of writing from the get-go. </p>

<p>I'd be happy to hear from other participants about what you have observed.</p>

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<p>I'll chime in with my experience.</p>

<p>Reflections on high school papers:</p>

<p>When I was in high school (graduated in 2000), I was assigned a number of papers for my college prep courses. Of course, they ramped up as I got further in high school. Freshman and sophomore years I was responsible for a term paper (forget the length now) that was written in the standard form with a thesis statement, three supporting body points, restated thesis and conclusions. All references had to be cited in MLA format (something I never had to use again). Junior year I think I started to be given written assignments for my history class, short papers (probably 5 pages tops). </p>

<p>Senior year was the crowning year when I had an english teacher that was 'preparing us for college' by making us write 5 page papers on silly subjects (if I were a super-hero what would I be type) until the entire class got the style and grammar correct. Same format papers as my previous high school years, but more intense and seems to be especially intense for a non-honors course (but it seems in retrospect my high schools college prep courses were more like honors classes at others). This year I also was taking honors political science and economics in which I had to write a 15-20 page paper for the year (not sure if she even read mine...I got an A for a crappy paper). </p>

<p>Reflections on college papers:</p>

<p>As an undergraduate at Pitt, I had a few classes that assigned multiple 5 page papers a semester (such as my freshman comp class and the only history class I took in college). When I got into upper level classes in my major, I had to take two writing intensive courses. This included about 5 pages of writing every week or two, nothing as intensive as my senior year of high school. Also, citations were much more relaxed. As long as I cited my references in a format that made sense, I got credit (no stupid points off for missplacing periods in MLA format). </p>

<p>The main difference between high school and college is that most of my writing was completed in essay exams as opposed to periodic writing assignments.</p>

<p>Now that I've been a teaching assistant at two different universities, I have a whole new view of writing in college and high school preparation.</p>

<p>I could go on in detail about the lack of high school preparation students are receiving for college writing, but that's a discussion for another day.</p>

<p>I will say one thing though, I wish there were more specialized writing classes in college these days. You'd think it wouldn't be that hard to make a freshman writing class focusing on scientific writing for science majors, but they appear to be few and far between. </p>

<p>Sorry if I went on a tangent ;)</p>

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<p>
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make a freshman writing class focusing on scientific writing for science majors

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</p>

<p>Great idea. My son was totally unprepared.</p>

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<p>My high school usually required one 6-8 page research paper per year of English, and AP English did an in-class essay every other week or so. History had the occasional DBQ in preparation for AP tests (it's like an essay, but they give you ten or so excerpts from sources, and you have to use seven or so of them in an essay). Pretty minimal. </p>

<p>In college, the writing is heavier but still not crazy. I'm an English major, and in the classes I've taken so far the norm is 2-3 papers in the range of 6-10 pages each per semester. There's usually a final, sometimes a midterm, but the bulk of the grade comes from the papers. History classes are usually a more intense midterm and final with one big paper of 10 or so pages. Foreign language classes range about 2-4 papers per semester but much shorter, about 4-6 pages each, because they're harder to write (obviously, they're in a foreign language). Those are really the bulk of classes I've taken; I'm not a science major, so I don't take labs with lab reports or anything like that, and all of my classes are traditionally writing-heavy, so I can't comment on the increasing emphasis on writing in non-traditionally writing-heavy subjects.</p>

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<p>My kids' school district had a writing exam that they had to pass to graduate from 8th grade -- I think that was initiated about the time that my son was in 8th grade, so I don't remember much prep for that -- but by the time my daughter came along, the prep was beginning in 6th grade, perhaps with interim tests, with lots of in-class practice. Basically they had to write a 20 minute response to a prompt - the same basic 5 paragraph essay that is now on the SAT writing exam, except the prompts were more interesting -- and they needed to score at least 3 on a 5 point scale to pass. </p>

<p>Like Packmom's kids, my son went to a high school that required a senior project, which began with a mini-version in junior year. It required both preparation of a research paper and an oral presentation in front of teachers and other students. The kids were supposed to turn in rough drafts at specified deadlines during senior year..... but somehow my son managed to trash everything he had written before and pretty much do the whole thing the night before it was due. Which of course was excellent preparation for college, except for the fact that I did not serve alcohol at home so he did not gain experience writing with a hangover. :p</p>

<p>My daughter went to a different high school -- no culminating senior project -- but both my kids had AP English classes which required extensive writing practice to prepare for the AP exam -- I never had anything like that in my high school back in the stone age, though I did take the AP English lit exam (but without the prep of a course -- I just went in cold and figured I could pass it). </p>

<p>My son started college at a LAC well-known for its emphasis on writing, so of course he did a lot of writing there. What has surprised me somewhat is that he has now transferred to a less prestigious state college, and he seems to be doing a lot of writing there, as well -- although from what he has shared the standards are lower at the state college in terms of expected level of writing. In other words, the writing is easier. </p>

<p>My daughter has a mandatory first year English writing seminar course at her college, so a lot of writing for her as well. I didn't have anything like that at my college, probably because I placed out of whatever basic English requirements my school had with my AP credit. </p>

<p>I think what has changed is the technology, both for writing and research. In my day, we typed up papers and if revisions needed to be made, the whole thing would have to be retyped. Typing was slow going because mistakes were so hard to correct and we tended to be using carbons on our final draft. I was the envy of my fellow students because I could type a long paper cold, all with a single draft (a feat of organizational skill that served me well as a lawyer). But there was no substitute for taking notes on index cards after tedious research at the library. </p>

<p>Now its all word processing and the internet -- most college students have immediate access to all sorts of research journals through their college library subscriptions. So library research has become either a last step or a last resort. And multiple revisions of work are expected, -- when high school teachers and/or college profs hand something back with comment and criticisms, they expect to see a second revised work incorporating the changes. So the whole process of writing has changed. </p>

<p>So I do think that there is more writing, not less -- though I don't know that the writing ability has improved. I sometimes see posts on this board from kids who are applying to Ivies -- and a few who are IN Ivies - that make me shudder. Whatever the emphasis on high school writing, it seems that no one teaches basic English grammar or punctuation any more. (Even my own kids don't seem to appreciate the function of a comma, or to have learned the difference between a sentence and a paragraph.) My daughter was surprised at the poor quality of writing that she saw from some of her classmates in her college writing seminar. So I can see why some colleges want to have that SAT writing exam simply to ensure basic proficiency. Part of the problem may be that the technology makes it too easy to cheat -- a lot of kids who are poor writers may be making it through high school mostly on the strength of essays that are mostly copied from web sites-- the cut-and-paste wikipedia approach to essay writing.</p>

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<p>My daughter has been keeping count of how many research papers she's written this semester, her first in college. For four into. level classes which began in late August, one of which is a studio art class, she has written two 15+ research papers, one 10-page paper, and 10 shorter, 3-5+ page papers. She has another 15+ research paper to go, plus two smaller papers, plus a major presentation before the semester ends. I am not sure if this is a typical workload at the college she attends or just a function of the courses she's taking this semester (psychology, English, a freshman seminar on genocide, plus studio art). It does, however, seem like much more writing than I did as a freshman taking similar courses way back when. The upshot is that she has had very few exams, and she has been delighted to receive 2-3 pages of handwritten comments on many of her papers from her professors.</p>

<p>She attended a high school where she typically wrote 1 or 2 10+ page research papers a year, plus several 3-5 papers each semester. She says she is doing fine with all of the writing, although she wishes she'd learned to use the library more efficiently in high school because she's now learning that not everything you need for a college research paper can be found on the internet.</p>

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<p>CalMom,
Thanks for reminding me of the horrors of writing college term papers with the bottle of liquid white-out close at hand. Those were the days!</p>

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<p>Liquid white out...oh my. That was "state of the art". When I was in college we had "Correct-o-type". It was a tape that you put on your mistake and then you retyped the correct item over the mistake. It never worked correctly. White out wasn't around back when the dinos roamed!!</p>

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<p>Hmmm...I know you and I were in college around the same time, so maybe I am only imagining the smell of white out when I think of pounding out papers. Maybe white out came later, and I am suffering from some sort of memory loss from exposure to its lovely, yet pungent, smell. I do remember my thrill when my parents bought me a smith-corona typewriter in my senior year with a cartridge you could put in (after carefully removing the ink ribbon cartridge) to "white out" corrections. In fact, I believe I may have that hidden somewhere in the deep reaches of my attic.</p>

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<p>"She says she is doing fine with all of the writing, although she wishes she'd learned to use the library more efficiently in high school because she's now learning that not everything you need for a college research paper can be found on the internet."</p>

<p>Music to my ears!</p>