<p>What percentage of NCPs are cooperative with financial aid forms and willing to pay?</p>
<p>Seems like the percentage is likely to be low, due to lingering distrust between the ex-spouses, and the likelihood that the NCP (and the CP) household finances are in poor condition due to the expenses of divorce.</p>
<p>How would that be determined? People generally only know of their own situations and that of their friends’. There’s not an entity that tracks this.</p>
<p>I agree that things like anger, distrust, and financial damage from the divorce are factors, but also many of our states’ child support laws that seem to tell NCPs that they don’t have to pay a cent once the child is 18. Another issue can be remarriage…an NCP may know that the new spouse won’t allow it, either. </p>
<p>It might vary based on how bitter the noncustodial is towards their child, to be honest. I can’t imagine trying to screw my kid out of a college education just to get back at my ex-wife/ex-husband, and that’s basically what they are trying to do. I understand not paying any money, but the Noncustodial Parent Form is not even close to being the most demanding thing that a parent can do for a child. </p>
<p>If they’re not willing to even do that small amount of work to help support their kid, then it’s unsurprising that there is not a good relationship between them. It’s kind of like a chicken and egg – is the noncustodial parent’s indifference caused by resentment between parent and child, or did the noncustodial parent’s indifference lead to the resentment??</p>
<p>Hard to measure as a lot of this is a known factor. I know and have known kids who have be aware that their choices are the local affordable schools, and that there is going to be little help from NCP and even CP. </p>
<p>I also know a lot of intact families where the parents refuse to fill out FAFSA The category where I see it, anecdotally the most is when there is a step parent involved who has made it clear s/he is not paying for colllege; perhaps is paying for his/her own kids for college, and that ends the financial aid possibilities right there as that parent won’t even give up the financial info. Most people don’t know and don’t investigate the impact of remarrying on financial aid. But in most of these cases, with those I know, little or no financial aid is forthcoming anyways. I remember one mom who pushed and begged, and fought to get the fin aid info from her husband (a step) and her ex (NCP) and it was all for naught. In my area with high COL and housing prices and just plain old big spending, a lot of families did not save for college but their income precludes them from financial aid </p>
<p>A close of friend of mine who cried and railed about her ex refusing to fill out NCP forms really should have just left that part out, as her ex made so much that there was no way her kids were getting financial aid with that income in the picture That he refused to pay for college is more the issues, not that he refused to give the info. Also most schools do not meet full need anyways, as many are discovering. Also those who own businesses are finding that NPCs are not at all accurate at times and even a low income in that setting could mean a high expectation of what to pay. </p>
<p>When there has been litigation between the exes and reason to keep finances secret, I can see where the NCP won’t release the info. </p>
<p>Well, that seems like two different things to assess. In our case, NCP willingly provided income figures once he realized it was confidential and that neither myself or D would actually see them. His new wife of six months was astounded that her figures had to be provided as well (she has no children for past reference). D had informed him that her chances of many of the schools on her list was nill if he didn’t provide the information and so he did and with a nudge from me, did it timely for EA. Their incomes, at 4x my household income, is going to be a killer.</p>
<p>Now, as far as contributing over and above the court ordered child support, that’s another issue. In Massachusetts, unless the original decree states something different, child support continues to age 21 if said child is in college full time. When I got my notice in August that the support would be ending at age 18 I had to pull out those 17 year old paternity papers to find that it was a “silent” agreement; support past 18/college contribution had not been determined. Several phone calls to DOR and it was continued to age 21 and NCP was notified. He was under the impression that it would end at high school graduation and then he would contribute XXX to college, an arbitrary number he alone could decide on. When it became clear that his court- ordered support would continue, resentment unsued. He is now of the school that his commitment has been clearly laid out by the courts and he’s playing hardball with voluntary contributions.</p>
<p>I know what my EFC is, I can guess what his income and EFC will be (and once the packages start arriving it will be that much clearer) and if need be, we’ll have a come-to-Jesus, where he can be the “bad guy” if he so chooses. When it comes down to it, I probably should have had support re-assessed back when she started high school (courts allow for a 10% increase at age 13) but I was more invested in co-parenting D through those tumultuous adolescent years than getting a few more dollars each month. His reasoning now of ignorance as to college costs and that his income would be taken into consideration is not my concern. Like my family, he’ll have to figure out ways to make college affordable for D. I’m not saying he has to pony up $50K a year so she can go to her choice of schools but unless he wants to be the one who prevents her from going to a reasonable school on her list and the catalyst for ensuring she ends up at the state school that she so vehemently does not want to attend, he should probably be looking at financial strategies to make it happen. </p>
<p>Even if NCP info is confidential, it really isn’t if the numbers come back high. The CP can easily figure out what her share would be and the remainder would indicate a much higher income on the other side…which in some cases might cause a CP to go after more Child Support for any younger kids. </p>
<p>And, so some colleges are actually splitting the Family Contribution according to the info, which further indicates the other’s situation.</p>
<p>That is exactly what I am expecting ~ my EFC to show up as $5-7K, his to show up in the mid $20Ks (at least)…good bargaining tool once it is in black and white. There are no younger children to account for in our scenario but if I knew then what I know now, I would have had the reassessment at age 13 and included college language at that time as well.</p>
<p>NEPatsgirl, are you giving him input into the college choices, how much he thinks he can contribute? I’d be very angry if just told how much I was expected to pay with absolutely no choice. My kids didn’t have the universe of colleges to choose from because I couldn’t afford every school. They didn’t want to go to our state school either, but would have had to pick one if they hadn’t found other affordable options.</p>
<p>I used to work in a court that did divorces and I saw the bitter fighting and arguing over the most trivial thing. What it took me a while to figure out was that I was seeing a very small portion of divorces, just the ones where they were fighting. The largest percentage, by far, had the parties coming to an agreement on their own and then my judge would just sign off. There were, of course, guidelines the attorneys could use to figure out how much each parent would be required to contribute toward support. At that time child support could be required to age 21, but the law has since been changed to 18 or hs graduation, but at the time the NCP had visitation of every other weekend and Wednesday nights. Now it is the norm for custody to be joint and for each party to have equal ‘parenting time’ as parents shouldn’t visit their children.</p>
<p>As to the original question, I don’t think the percentage refusing to cooperate is high. Take the number of college students and then subtract those over 24, those whose parents are still married, those who do not have an NCP, those who are independent because of marriage/military service/parent themselves, those who do not apply for FA anyway, and the pool is getting pretty shallow. It may seem like a large number because of the recently publicized cases or because those whose NCP won’t complete the forms post about it, but the many NCP who do complete the forms just do it, without a need for discussion.</p>
<p>In many states, child support ends at age 18 or graduation from high school. To get the support for 4 more years gives you a bit of a weaning from that income. Since your ex does not have to pay penny one for college, if he does not want to do so, some sort of cordial discussion of this matter would be wise. Where does he think his DD should be going to school, what can he pay? What is he willing to pay? The more iinvolvement a NCP has in the process, the more that person is likely to be invested.</p>
<p>Yes, bio Dad has been kept in the loop from the beginning. He has done a few of the college visits and he and D talk at least weekly about how the list is shaping up. His mistake was assuring her if her grades were good she could pick her choice of schools (for the most part) before he did his research. He had two other daughters go through the college process whereby this is a first for me. It was a big surprise to him when I started researching EFC. Mine is quite doable (and I’ve been putting funds into a 529 every month for the last four years and have some other strategical sacrifices in the works). His EFC is not and he has saved nothing, not a penny, for college. According to him when his first two children attended college (they are 16 and 18 years older than D) neither applied to schools that required NCP income and so he was not aware that his numbers would be taken into consideration at all. His ex-wife at the time was unemployed and so his daughter’s went to school based on the child support he paid, which was minimal back then, so they pretty much went to state schools for free. Neither had the academic grades or insight to look beyond those schools.</p>
<p>So, we’ve been learned alot about the college process with D. We started a year ago and IMHO he should have, at that very moment, started stashing $$ and trying to establish some sort of budget. Instead, D and I rerouted the college priority list to add schools where NCP is not included, so there is now a nice mix with a wide net. While we are working towards making a viable list, he gets remarried and increases his income by another $60K without any thought to how this affects the bottom line and is now even more surprised at the estimated figures. I, otoh, have held off taking an offered position with much higher income for the moment. Add the fact that new wife isn’t really on board with paying too much OOP for college and we have a mess. One that I am NOT willing to go to court to fight about at this late stage. </p>
<p>So, when pressed in the last month or two to come up with a contribution figure, he blurts out $10K, so long as its matched by me. Now he’s teetering back and forth between less than that depending on the school. So, yes, long story short…he has been kept in the loop all along and I have done everything in my power to keep the co-parenting harmonious as best I can, and most importantly, to keep D’s stress levels at a minimum. Its always been my goal to keep her out of the financial loop where child support is involved but like I said earlier, if he doesn’t choose to contribute enough towards a school that I think is a good match, financially and otherwise, he can be the “bad guy”. I’ve taken the fall for everything else in the last 17 years LOL so he could be the good guy.</p>
<p>Sigh. It’s always difficult in these situations. Many people have no idea about PROFILE schools and how they work. My friend’s husband was in the same mode His two daughters from a previous marriage basically went to college for free as his ex had a low income and they commuted to a local college. He continued child support and paid for a few things out of pocket, but it was a low cost situation.</p>
<p>Their son, when he started looking at colleges was in a whole other mode in that he wanted to go to “sleep away” college and was looking at private school options as well. That they did not qualify for much financial aid towards a $60K tab was a huge shock for him. So the young man had to look at affordable options; Some commuter schools, some state schools, schools with low sticker prices, schools where he had a shot at merit money.</p>
<p>As it turned out he got a half scholarhship at a school, which though still was about $10K a year more than they wanted to pay, they are doing it with loans and the student working summer and school year. But it was a surprise to his dad even though he had gone through this twice before That this third child was still in an intact marriage made it a bit easier in terms of discussion and sacrifices, but it was still unplanned for, unexpected expense Happens a lot.</p>
<p>Yes, I imagine it does happen alot. What I am telling my friends that have kids in junior high is to start researching the ins and outs now, don’t wait. I don’t think a college list needs to start until junior year when tests scores and aptitude is less likely to have changes but just getting to know costs and financial aid strategies and such would have been really useful to us. And while most people consider me Type A (D as well) I feel like we weren’t prepared as well as we could have been and have had to backtrack and jump through hoops to prepare a good college list. </p>
<p>In the end, D has already been accepted to five safety schools, three of which should definately pan out financially, although still at the higher end of what I had originally planned for. Is this where she wants to go? No. She wants to attend one of those PROFILE schools she had her heart set on. Bonus is though that she doesn’t really have a dream school per se, but instead a handful of schools where she would be happy to attend if financial aid/merit aid comes through.</p>
<p>You held off on taking a job with much higher income? Was that because the increase in your income would be less than the anticipated non-loan need-based aid your daughter will most likely get?</p>
<p>There are a few cases where getting just a little bit of a raise eliminates a lot of tax benefits, especially for singles. For example, a single parent making $75k/yr qualifies for the AOTC and in California most of the UC and CSU tax benefits. If the single parent makes $81k? Bad news, some of those are greatly reduced or eliminated. If you have two kids in college? That AOTC could be $5k, and the Cal grants several thousand. You’d also have to pay state and federal taxes on that raise of $6k, and the net could be a loss.</p>
<p>I am an NCP. I am almost offended by the question, but I guess there are enough people out there to make the question a reasonable one. I would say the number one good decision I made in my divorce was to go to mediation instead of using lawyers. I was more involved in college selection/application than was my ex-wife. And I am going to be paying way more than her, and properly reporting it on the FAFSA. My ex was always the custodial parent with 55%-85% of custody depending on circumstances, as I worked full time, and lived in another country for a while.</p>
<p>Regarding OP’s question, really difficult data to gather, it will have high correlation with how much the custodial parent alienates the NCP from their relationship with the kids. And of course how much the NCP himself detaches from the previous family unit. If I would ever give advice to a custodial parents, it would be to nurture the relationship of your kids with the NCP, that will help in more ways than one in the future.</p>
<p>@NEPatsGirl most probably you will disagree with me, but saying that you are going to try to make him look like the “bad guy” does not look like where you should be putting your effort. It almost seems to me that you are pushing your daughter to the Profile schools to put him in the position of being the “bad guy”. </p>
<p>The way I read that post wasn’t that they wil be making the NCP the “bad guy” but that if the NCP decides not to get involved in the financial aid process then the poster won’t take the blame/responsibility for that. That seems reasonable to me; if the dad doesn’t want to help out with the college process then how much can mom really do to burnish his image? That’s a choice on his part and not something that the mom can reasonably control.</p>
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<p>I agree with that. Sometimes divorced parents and separated parents detach themselves and try to go it alone and act as if the other parts of the family don’t exist. It’s often for good reasons at the time, but there’s a tradeoff/penalty for that. For the custodial parent, it’s harder to ask for noncustodial parents’ support after you’ve basically cut them off or demonized them unfairly. For the noncustodial parent, there is a loss of control and influence that comes with when you forsake your children and move on. It’s always best if the two parents can get along at least to the extent that they can take care of their child together when possible.</p>
<p>@rgosula, no. Let’s not forget that he was the one who told her she could go anywhere she wanted and has been telling her that for many years. Granted, neither of us were educated in the college search but I have always been a bit wary in all financial aspects and was more of the “you can get a good education in many schools, prestige is not what we need to look at”. I have no desire for him to look like the bad guy but I really believe he needs to put his $$ where his mouth is. He and his new wife now make more than 4x what I make but he wants to “match” me? He can explain that to his daughter. I have never said anything negative in 17 years and I will continue my oath to not do so but she is a smart girl, she can crunch numbers, she will see the EFC, and then he can decide what he wants to do with it.</p>
<p>The way the conversation seems to be going, he will not be putting more money than you. And you are unwilling or unable to provide half of a high priced private college. So once you accept that reality, you need to find out what is best for your daughter. Not push her into a situation that she will accept the higher priced university to put pressure on her dad to pay. What will happen is he will not pay, and she wont be able to pay the bill. And at that point she will have already turned down the financial safeties. And will end up in community college, with everybody mad at each other. And the NCP will successfully be labeled the “bad guy”, but what would have happened to your daughter, and the relationships?</p>
<p>There is no obligation for divorced, or married parents for that matter, to pay for college.</p>
<p>You are thinking he should pay proportional to income.
He is thinking, the only reason she wants the expensive school, is because she does not expect to put in as much money as me, especially since there are perfectly good alternatives in which he does not need to take on most of the burden of a high priced private college.</p>
<p>@NEPatsGirl and @rgosula </p>
<p>you both make very good points. </p>
<p>NePatsGirl is thinking that D’s dad encouraged her to apply to good schools and that he’d make it happen. Of course, his new wife’s income ups the family contribution and likely dad doesn’t think she should be contributing…which is likely why he’s thinking costs should be split. </p>
<p>rgosula is concerned about the aftermath if none of the top schools end up being affordable. I don’t think his warning that the safeties will have been declined by then would hold true. But, there could be much disappointment if D ends up feeling like she’s stuck with the boobie prize because her parents won’t pay.</p>