<p>A lot of posters on here have put forth the claim that USNWR is somehow biased against state schools through the methodology that it chooses to employ. What I'm wondering then, is if USNWR radically changed its ranking criteria, what private schools would have to be dropped in order for some of the top publics to surge in the ranking? It seems pretty clear to me that at least the top 20 schools, as outlined by USNEWS, are established as better undergraduate academic institutions than UC Berkeley, the unanimous choice for the top public school spot. So at best, Berkeley would gain a couple of spots in a new and revised ranking.</p>
<p>Just for fun. And because any ranking of this sort is ridiculous.</p>
<p>For universities, I value top-flight research academics over manicured lawns.</p>
<p>So I would trade Vanderbilt and Emory for Berkeley and Michigan. UVa is a great school, but its research prowess is increasingly lacking. </p>
<p>UCLA is a strong consideration, but in my opinion I don't know if Notre Dame, Rice, WUSTL deserve to be completely outside the top twenty. But put Berkeley in 10-15, and put Michigan in the 15-20 bracket. As a research university, WUSTL is definitely more of a 16-18 than a 12.</p>
<p>
[quote]
So I would trade Vanderbilt and Emory for Berkeley and Michigan. UVa is a great school, but its research prowess is increasingly lacking.
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Really? You would keep Notre Dame in the mix?</p>
<p>I would take out Emory and Notre Dame for those two schools. Emory because they're already gaming the system with their Oxford College nonsense. Notre Dame because it seems rather provincial and reluctant to diversify.</p>
<p>Its academics (outside of business and theology/philosophy) are middling, but I think the cohesiveness of the undergraduate body and the sheer enthusiasm that students have for the school make it a worthy consideration. </p>
<p>It's a niche school that obviously won't appeal to a lot of the population, but at the same time, for probably 40 percent of the population of the country it is the number one "dream" school, and students are incredibly happy there. And the alums are incredibly successful in their various pursuits.</p>
<p>The hardest decision in my life was turning down Notre Dame for Cornell. Everybody -- friends and family -- thought I was absolutely crazy. But I ended up choosing Cornell for exactly the reasons why you specify. It's diverse and egalitarian. </p>
<p>What's interesting is that you don't see people on these boards jockeying for whether or not Notre Dame is better than Cornell or Vanderbilt or Rice. They don't have to. Notre Dame might as well be in its own universe of happy, bright, Catholic, corn-fed white kids.</p>
<p>So yeah, my personal biases definitely factor into this, as they would for everybody. Sure. replace Notre Dame with Vandy. Or better yet, put UCLA in for Notre Dame.</p>
<p>I'd take out WUSTL for sure. Know some people with crappy experiences there who said the classes and profs were horrible. Both transfered to ivys and are much happier now...</p>
<p>I'd keep Notre Dame, that school is harder to get into than most people probably realize, the academics are hard w/ no grade inflation unlike some ivys and the school spirit and campus commnity can't compare to another school. It should definately be in the top 20 for all of these reasons and more</p>
<h2>Michigan is very easy to get into. Most years the acceptance rate has been over 50% and has just recently dropped below that. For graduate programs, Michigan is definitely an elite. But for undergrad, I think the selectivity hurts (pretty much anyone who attends an elite private college (top 20 or so) would easily get into Michigan).</h2>
<p>When I was in HS, I remember there was a girl who was completely obsessed with Northwestern. It was her dream school and she talked about it all the time for years. Anyways, she was rejected but got into Michigan. The funny part was after this happened -- she started saying Michigan was a better school than Northwestern anyways. Its hilarious how she "discovered" this after the fact.</p>
<p>Berkeley is a zoo. Applying for classes is the equivalent of paying taxes in a small city in terms of contact between administration and students. Advising? HA! 25,000 undergraduates! Have fun with that, not to mention the huge cohorts of community college transfers that dilute the prestige value of the degree. I think 95% of people would choose Duke over Berkeley any day for undergrad, so kingofqueens, I'm sorry, but please don't try to conspicuously slip Berkeley into the top 10, where it clearly does not belong.</p>
<p>People (Californians, at least) go to Berkeley because it's cheap. Let's not fool ourselves here.</p>
<p>Even if I think higly of Berkeley, I don't believe that it is top 10 university at undergrad level. I don't think anyone can make a reasonable claim that Berkeley is a Stanford or MIT caliber school to be ranked near no. 6 or 7. Although Berkeley has a very high prestige in West Coast, other parts of the country don't particularly regard the school to be a top 10 university. Imo, it is a legit top 20 university, cosidering its strong academic programs and research contributions. And, for this reason, I feel that Berkeley is slightly underrated by US News and the general public, and it deserves that top 20 spot.</p>
<p>If anything, public schools are overrated by Us news. The whopping 25% score of Peer Assessment places publics way higher than their private counterparts, especially for an undergraduate education.</p>
<p>Examples: Cal, Umich, Illinios, etc. (Illinois PA 4.0 = 4.0 Georgetown).
Its very consistent and you can see the bias once you rank according to PA only.</p>
<p>"People (Californians, at least) go to Berkeley because it's cheap. Let's not fool ourselves here."</p>
<p>Well, to be fair, Berkeley is both cheap and awesome academically. It has numerous departments ranked near the top. I would say that it offers a very attractive package to high caliber students.</p>
<p>kingofqueens: I agree with your ranking for the most part, but if Vandy goes, why wouldn't Emory? They definitely seem on par. Rice is an awesome school, but if it should be in the top 20, so should Tufts, perhaps even USC.</p>
<p>And I'm still wondering whether indiejimmy is being facetious...</p>