What racial group would they fit under?

Applying to College
61

<p>Quote from Tourguide: "Northstarmom, there are a LOT of Black people in the US from Africa and other places that are not "American." Where are you from that you presume the HYPS campuses would be just about the only places where there might be more than a few Blacks who are not American? You could see a Black person leading a 4th of July parade in Des Moines, Iowa, and you'd still not necessarily be accurate in describing him as African AMERICAN, even though you could accurately refer to him as Black."</p>

<p>From The Washington Post:
"The nation's most elite colleges and universities are bolstering their black student populations by enrolling large numbers of immigrants from Africa, the West Indies and Latin America, according to a study published recently in the American Journal of Education.</p>

<p>Immigrants, who make up 13 percent of the nation's college-age black population, account for more than a quarter of black students at Ivy League and other selective universities, according to the study, produced by Princeton University and the University of Pennsylvania.</p>

<p>The large representation of black immigrants developed as schools' focus shifted from restitution for decades of excluding black Americans from campuses to embracing wider diversity, the study's authors said. The more elite the school, the more black immigrants are enrolled."
<a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/05/AR2007030501296_pf.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/05/AR2007030501296_pf.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>another article:
"Something in the crowd made Shirley Wilcher wonder. As a college graduate in the early 1970s, her black classmates were like herself — born in the United States, to American parents. But at an alumni reunion at Mount Holyoke College last year, she saw something different and asked for admissions data to prove it.
“My suspicions were confirmed,” said Wilcher, now the executive director of the American Association for Affirmative Action. She found a rise in the number of black students from Africa and the Caribbean, and a downturn in admissions of native blacks like her. </p>

<p>A study released this year put numbers on the trend. Among students at 28 top U.S. universities, the representation of black students of first- and second-generation immigrant origin (27 percent) was about twice their representation in the national population of blacks their age (13 percent). Within the Ivy League, immigrant-origin students made up 41 percent of black freshmen." <a href="http://www.impactlab.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=11548%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.impactlab.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=11548&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>The post that I made that you referred to said that if one was on a campus like Harvard and guessed that a black student was African-American (i.e. the descendant of black slaves in the U.S. as compared to the offspring of an African or Caribbean immigrant), one would be more likely to be wrong than if one went virtually any where else in the U.S. and made the same guess. As you can see from the stories that I quoted above, about 1 in 10 black people in the U.S. is an immigrant. That percentage would expand if you include their offspring, but still, the odds would be with you if you guessed that a black person in the U.S. was African American (as defined by the U.S. census), not an immigrant or the offspring of an immigrant.</p>

<p>As for where I'm from: I'm from Upstate NY and have lived all over the country: the South, Midwest, West and New England. I also am black, Harvard grad whose (black) father was from Jamaica and whose mother was an African American granddaughter of a slave.</p>

62

<p>
[quote]
And did you read about the African American kids at Harvard who were playing their annual touch football game in the dorm quad? Other students called the police on them, since there were all these black kids where they shouldn't be!

[/quote]
Hahahahahaha, I was there when this happened!</p>

63

<p>hotpiece,
I hadn't heard of this before. Please provide some details.
I'm curious why you laughed. Nothing funny about that to me. It's very sad that even at Harvard black students need to be concerned about being the targets of this kind of bigotry.</p>

64

<p>It is only funny because I had no idea it got such widespread attention that people outside of the Harvard bubble knew about it.</p>

<p>I don't have time to elaborate on the issue right now, but when I get back from shopping I'll explain what happened. And trust, although this event got the most widespread attention, other very racist things occur at Harvard. So, no black person (wealthy or not, educated or not) is exempt from racism.</p>

65

<p>noone is exempt from racism.</p>

66

<p>Most North Africans did not descend from Caucasians. They are considered either Middle Eastern or African or just African because these countries are in Africa. These people don't even like white people(seeing them as representing the West) so I do not think they would like to identify with them. Now with them wanting to be called Black I think that would be up to them. Some of them have Black features that would pass off as mixed here in America.</p>

<p>The OPs children, as said, are white. They're greatgrandfatehr being only born in Algeria does not make them Algerian unless he himself were just Algerian but he was French, right? And like others said you can't claim to be Black when it's convenient.</p>

<p>As for Africans in America being African American? I think that also depends on the person individually. My friend is from Sudan and she considers herself just Sudanese or African, but then again she was born in Sudan. I, myself, was born in America, my parents are Nigerian, but my whole life I have considered myself African-American in broader terms and more specifically Nigerian-American. Because I was born in America, but I do have Nigerian ancestry and Nigeria is in Africa so thus making African-American. </p>

<p>So I do not think it is fair to say that people like me cannot be considered African American when that is what we have identified with all our lives. Sure there is a social perception that African American is only for Black Americans, but that is because many people think that Africans are all immigrants and neglect the ones who were born in America. </p>

<p>I am African-American and, more specifically, Nigerian-American. </p>

<p>Now what about my Ethiopians friends who look mixed? Can they be considered Black or even African? I think that it is up to them to decide that and not some people on CC dictating which category each country lies. But at the same time it is not a convenience issue.</p>

<p>Sammy Sosa is a Black Hispanic, Black Cuban. But remember y'all where did a lot of these Black people in Latin America and the Caribbeans descend from? Africa.</p>

<p>Also most Africans in America are not upper-middles class. That is a very false statement. Go to the ghettos of biggest cities where Africans are and you will see that we largely represent those areas as well.</p>

67

<p>"So I do not think it is fair to say that people like me cannot be considered African American when that is what we have identified with all our lives"</p>

<p>What's important is how the U.S. Census Bureau defines "African American." Those are the criteria that the colleges are using as they figure out the racial composition of their campuses.</p>

<p>"Also most Africans in America are not upper-middles class. That is a very false statement. Go to the ghettos of biggest cities where Africans are and you will see that we largely represent those areas as well."</p>

<p>I don't normally quote Wikipedia because I prefer to quote the original sources. However, i'm time pressed, and I also know that W. is correct here. Anyone who has the time can verify the info by finding the primary sources, some of which are listed at the end of the Wikipedia article.</p>

<p>"Africans also have the highest educational attainment rates of any immigrant group in the United States with higher levels of completion than the stereotyped Asian American model minority.[4] It is not only the first generation that does well, as estimates indicate that a highly disproportionate percentage of black students at elite universities are African or the children of African immigrants. Harvard University, for example, has estimated that two-thirds of their black population is not comprised of traditional black Americans.[5] This is true for other universities such as Yale, Princeton, Penn, Columbia, Duke and Berkeley.[6] As a result, the benefits of affirmative action are not efficiently serving traditional multi-generational black Americans who are descendents of American slaves.[7] This also includes recent black immigrants from other areas of the African diaspora, like Afro-Caribbean people.</p>

<p>In an analysis of Census Bureau data by the Journal of Blacks in higher education, African immigrants to the United States were found more likely to be college educated than any other immigrant group. African immigrants to the U.S. are also more highly educated than any other native-born ethnic group including white Americans. Some 48.9 percent of all African immigrants hold a college diploma. This is slightly more than the percentage of Asian immigrants to the U.S., nearly double the rate of native-born white Americans, and nearly four times the rate of native-born African Americans[8].</p>

<p>In 1997, 19.4 percent of all adult African immigrants in the United States held a graduate degree, compared to 8.1 percent of adult whites and 3.8 percent of adult blacks in the United States, respectively [9]. This information suggests that America has an equally large achievement gap between whites and African/Asian immigrants as they do between white and black Americans."</p>

<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africans_in_the_United_States%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africans_in_the_United_States&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

68

<p>Yea I know that we are the unofficial model minority, but that does not mean that a lot of us are upper-middle class. It takes time to immigrate to America, settle in, and start making money.</p>

69

<p>Okay, I'm back. To answer your question about the quad incident, Northstarmom:</p>

<p>Each year the Association of Black Harvard Women (ABHW) and the Black Men's Forum (BMF) gather to have a friendly competition. We play cards, flag football, have potato sack races, etc. Last year, the event was held on the Quad in the yard behind Cabot House. While we all played our games and enjoyed ourselves, people who lived in Cabot started an email conversation back and forth. It began rather innocently with one person asking why it was so loud outside. Someone responded that there were people on the yard tearing up the precious grass and that these people don't even go to Harvard. Their reasoning for thinking that we don't go to Harvard in spite of our Harvard-affiliated attire: we don't look like we go to Harvard. </p>

<p>Many black people who live in Cabot House responded to these complaints by stating numerous times that we do, in fact, go to Harvard and we were actually a part of Harvard-sponsored student groups. However, this didn't end their rants about the out of place black kids on their lawn. They said that we were ruining their precious grass and thus the graduation ceremony would be ruined. And that we had no right to be there and that we were being far too loud. And yet again, more Cabot residents responded by saying that we have every right to be on the yard. Then someone decided to call the campus police to investigate these supposed "intruders." Harvard University Police came and we were forced to show our IDs to prove that we were in fact Harvard students. </p>

<p>Here's a Crimson article about it: <a href="http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=518895%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=518895&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

70

<p>That is too funny (funny in that it is sad that people can be bigots even at Harvard) perhaps race issues may be worse on your campus than at Cornell. Have you guys had any racially-themed frat parties?</p>

71

<p>


TrackBabi, the term "African American" was adopted after black descendents of slaves in this country shunned the terms colored or Negro. Therefore, an alternative term was decided on to mean black descendents of American slaves, African Americans. So, whether you like or agree with it, the term African American is used (as its original function) to refer to black descendents of slaves, not recent immigrants who were born here. However, as I told TourGuide, if people choose to deviate from its original meaning, that's on them. If you consider yourself African American, fine. But that wasn't the original intent of the term.</p>

<p>Secondly, because African immigrants have a much higher level of educational attainment than African Americans, they also enjoy a much higher economic level. Does this make most of them upper-middle class? Not necessarily, but it does make them way above the median income range of African Americans.</p>

72

<p>
[quote]
That is too funny (funny in that it is sad that people can be bigots even at Harvard) perhaps race issues may be worse on your campus than at Cornell. Have you guys had any racially-themed frat parties?

[/quote]
We don't have frats... But yes, racial tensions do seem to be a little elevated at Harvard. Mostly because Harvard is such a liberal place, that people are quick to accuse minority groups of being self-segregating and also quick to deny that racism can exist at the best university in the world.</p>

73

<p>wait there are no frats in Harvard? No Greek life? Are you serious? You would think Harvard is frat central</p>

<p>It's always that we're self-segregating and that racism does not exist. They expect us to come to them and not the other way around when we already got to their schools</p>

74

<p>Nope, no greek life. Harvard does, however, have final clubs (which are like a cross between Yale's secret societies and the average frat). As far as I know, there have been no racially themed parties (but that's probably because there are at least a few minorities in each final club).</p>

75

<p>oh that's interesting.</p>

76

<p>black greek life is also virtually non-existant (no on-campus chapters because Harvard doesn't allow them, so you have to pledge to a city-wide chapter, which is a considerable amount of work on top of an already super-busy academic and extracurricular schedule). There were 2 Deltas (graduated this past year) and like 5 Kappas, no AKAs, no Zetas, no SGRhos, no Alphas, no Ques, no Sigmas, no Iotas on campus. It's sorta sad.</p>

<p>Most of the black people join male/female final clubs or rush mostly white sororities or fraternities (that have a very informal presence on campus, they don't host parties or do any of the normal "greek stuff").</p>

<p>I hope I can pledge a black sorority though!</p>

77

<p>that sucks good luck pledging.</p>

78

<p>My experience was that most people at Harvard had no interest in Greek things. They weren't the kind of people who get lots of pleasure in joining organizations in which people had to dress or act a certain way. After all, Harvard is a place in which students don't wear their school colors and don't get into a lather over their football team or band.</p>

<p>Pledging and other things that Greeks had to do always seemed silly to my friends and me.</p>

<p>If you want to go Greek, you always can do it after graduation. The alumni chapters of Greek organizations have much less stupid pledging routines than do the undergraduate chapters.</p>

<p>When I was at Harvard, I did know one student who pledged a sorority. She did it by managing to pledge at BU, from where she had transferred to Harvard. She ended up getting such low grades due to her Greek activities that she's the only Harvard student whom I ever met who applied to medical schools, but got no acceptances.</p>

79

<p>A lot has changed then, Northstarmom. I personally know a lot of girls (and guys) who were interested in pledging, but it was so hard to do that they just settled for final clubs or Delta Gamma, Kappa Alpha Theta, etc. </p>

<p>I really want to do it as a way to get out of the Harvard bubble while being actively involved with the community, but I'll see what happens next year with my schedule.</p>

<p>And, as far as I know, all the black greeks have GPA requirements now, so not getting decent grades is not an option.</p>

80

<p>
[quote]
black greek life is also virtually non-existant (no on-campus chapters because Harvard doesn't allow them, so you have to pledge to a city-wide chapter, which is a considerable amount of work on top of an already super-busy academic and extracurricular schedule). There were 2 Deltas (graduated this past year) and like 5 Kappas, no AKAs, no Zetas, no SGRhos, no Alphas, no Ques, no Sigmas, no Iotas on campus. It's sorta sad.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>
[quote]
My experience was that most people at Harvard had no interest in Greek things. They weren't the kind of people who get lots of pleasure in joining organizations in which people had to dress or act a certain way. After all, Harvard is a place in which students don't wear their school colors and don't get into a lather over their football team or band.

[/quote]

hotpiece is correct that with the exception of Penn & Cornell there is not a black greek presence at the ivies is pretty non-existence (as you also know Black greeks & black greek life is totally different from the mainstream greek experience in every aspect from rushing to service and their commitment to giving back to the communities in which they live and work). Those that had chapters, the last of the member ship had graduated an no new classes were recruited (it least it is this way @ my D's school which currently has 1 active black frat on campus)</p>