<p>Evergreen state? Being from the area, that school kind of alarms me. Though I’m sure there are some kids who are very happy there.</p>
<p>97% acceptance rate, low job placement, attacks on police officers, extremely one sided political bent. Definitely not what we’re looking for, though the open curriculum and intellectual students are appealing.</p>
<p>Very high job placement rate in state government (the last two we hired beat out applicants from Dartmouth and Princeton), and very well respected in social science (and mathematics) circle. The overall job placement rate represents the fact that a very large part of the student body is older.</p>
<p>Probably no more one-sided political bent than Brown, though it is true that Brown has many much wealthier students (that you don’t see at Evergreen). The attack on police officers were NOT by Evergreen students, but by folks from town. But on the whole, it is very similar to Brown in feel.</p>
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<p>A list of schools I mentioned that met some of the criteria that the OP outlined in his most recent posts…</p>
<p>Tufts…has engineering
Northwestern…has engineering
Lehigh…has engineering & business
Carnegie Mellon…has engineering & business
Johns Hopkins…has engineering
USC…has engineering & business
Washington Univ. St. Louis…has engineering & business
Rice…has engineering & business
Swarthmore…has engineering
University of Rochester…has engineering & business
Tulane…has engineering & business
Emory…has business (also computer and information sciences)
Duke…has engineering
George Washington…has engineering & business</p>
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<p>I’m not sure to whom this was addressed but I do not think JHU is like Brown either. But what happened is the OP started out with asking for schools like Brown but less selective. Then, many offered names of schools with an open curriculum such as Vassar, Amherst, Hampshire, Wesleyan, etc. But then, bluebayou asked an effective question as to what was the actual selection criteria and the OP attempted to outline some other things the son wanted in a college, besides an open curriculum. The list I gave above was in response to these OTHER criteria, and not so much “like Brown” or “open curriculum,” but more geared to the specific selection criteria. In that regard, JHU meets many of the criteria the OP mentioned, even though it is not like Brown. Honestly the specific selection criteria is a better way to go about it than “like Brown.” For example, my own kid went to Brown but only had one other school on her list with an open curriculum (Smith), but she had a list of personalized selection criteria and each school on her list met several of her selection criteria but not all. The schools themselves were not all exactly alike but met things she was looking for. </p>
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<p>Agree…in that regard, it not that effective.</p>
<p>Exactly two LACs - one, Swarthmore, with a TINY engineering program.</p>
<p>Rice has no undergraduate business major. Rochester has no undergraduate business.</p>
<p>Lehigh’s culture is WAY different than Brown’s (Evergreen is much closer.)</p>
<p>Busdriver: Did I miss where you listed his stats? It’d be very helpful to see his profile. There’s just a huge difference among these schools and if you’re thinking he might not get into Brown, then it might be a high reach for others on this list too.</p>
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<p>OP did not specify wanting a LAC, just under 10,000 students preferably.</p>
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<p>Rice, however, has a minor in business.</p>
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<p>There is a major in “Economics and Business Strategies” and there is also a Business Minor. </p>
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<p>Agreed. The list I wrote was an attempt to meet some of the actual SELECTION criteria that busdriver eventually articulated, as opposed to “like Brown.” Lehigh meets several of the criteria he outlined. By the way, my D who went to Brown also applied to Lehigh.</p>
<p>Sorry, limabeans, he’d be totally annoyed if I posted his stats. Probably annoyed if he knew I started this thread! :)</p>
<p>But I can tell you that he’s in the middle 50% of accepted students for most of these schools, except his writing score needs improvement. We are looking for a reach, high match school. We already have several match/safeties. Probably schools like Amherst or Swarthmore, with acceptances below 20% are too high of a reach to consider.</p>
<p>Amherst was mentioned but is also extremely selective. However, as you mentioned full pay, at least apply to Brown. That can sometimes swing things.</p>
<p>If this student’s stats and overall profile are not truly in range for Brown, being full pay will not matter. Brown turns away lots and lots of full pay applicants who have outstanding academic profiles.</p>
<p>My daughter’s at Brown now, but she also struggled to find schools that were safeties/matches/low reaches. </p>
<p>She read up on Johns Hopkins and Wash U and rejected both. They are the right size and in the right type of urbanish setting, but the intense academic focus of students was not attractive to her. She has friends at Wash U, and determined that the atmosphere there is very different from Brown’s. Students seem to take a lot of classes each semester (most students at Brown take four) and study a lot. Lots of premeds – like JHU. Your kid might be attractive to that, but that’s different from the “happy relaxed kids” at Brown.</p>
<p>She liked Wesleyan, but not the small town it’s in. Both Brandeis and Tufts, though, were the right size, suburban setting and the right campus feel for her. Macalester was also a good match.</p>
<p>Another school she applied to was University of Wisconsin/Madison. Obviously much much bigger than Brown, with a heavier focus on both sports and frats, but the campus feel, the intellectual students, high level of engagement – felt a lot like Brown to her.</p>
<p>^But I’ve heard plenty of people say that JHU is much more relaxed if you aren’t pre-med/science oriented. I don’t think it’s a bad idea to throw out a bunch of ideas - especially if you can say “this school also has open curriculum”, “this school also has a residential neighborhood but city location”. You never know what’s going to be non-negotiatable for a kid. For my son it turned out to be: it had to have a campus, it could not be rural, it had to be bigger than his high school, and finally as his search developed he thought International Relations was important. He applied to both U of Chicago and Brown. He felt the core was a good idea and would cover things he would like to study anyway, but he wasn’t wedded to it.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t worry too much about the writing score (depending of course on what it is), but I think a lot of colleges aren’t paying too much attention to it.</p>
<p>Interesting, fireandrain. It seems to be a good balance of finding happy/relaxed kids who are that way because they are enjoying the intellectual challenge…and not because of the beer! Will check those schools out.</p>
<p>I spent a little time in Madison, and it seemed like a very fun, quirky college.</p>
<p>Agree with fireandrain. I will reiterate that my D narrowed her pile of acceptances down to Tufts and Brown at the end of the admissions cycle and liked both very much. I do think Tufts appeals to kids who like Brown. For example, D got into Penn but like Tufts better. From my experience, the schools have cross admits. If Brown is too reachy for your son, Tufts may be a more suitable Reach school. Check it out. On my visits there with D (three visits) and my own experiences as an UG, Tufts students seem happy, relaxed, intellectual, and involved in many things. It is not a competitive atmosphere and also not a Greek party atmosphere. The feel of the campus itself and the setting, has some similarities to Brown too. Same with size. It also has an engineering school.</p>
<p>Exactly, mathmom, you don’t want the kid to completely rule a fine college out because of one certain aspect of it…that they might have not even put much thought into. If most of the other criteria fits, it’s worth looking into.</p>
<p>Good to know about the writing score. I didn’t know how particular the schools were on that one, though I know a few aren’t even asking for it. He’ll undoubtably bring it up when taking the SAT again anyways.</p>
<p>Will definitely check out Tufts, soozievt. It sounds fantastic from all I’ve read so far.</p>
<p>mathmom, it’s possible that JHU is more relaxed for those non premed types, but you are still living with and interacting with them regularly. As I said, it might not be deal-breaker for the OP’s kid – obviously there are lots of kids at JHU and Wash U who applied to Brown and are very happy at their schools. A lot of it does depend on which criteria are most important to the student.</p>
<p>As for the writing score – I’ve read recently that schools are finding a closer correlation/connection between the writing score and how kids do freshmen year. I know that Brown takes the writing score very seriously. I think when the writing part was introduced four years ago schools didn’t put as much weight on it, but I think that is changing. Of course, I haven’t gone to a college info session in five years, so I may be off base here.</p>
<p>Evergreen State College has some excellent programs and works well for many. Sure, there are some zoo-ey, entitled sorts (the crowd that over turned a police car did include some Evergreen students) but there are also many creative students who blossom well here. I’d definitely check it out. We’ve hosted several teens from other parts of the country who come out for a campus visit. Usually they have a strong reaction – either they love it or they are quick to say “next!”. </p>
<p>And that is true for most colleges. Either it speaks to the heart or it doesn’t. There is a reason that Evergreen is in the “Colleges that change lives” book. It belongs on that sort of list.</p>
<p>One word of warning on Tufts. The distribution requirements allow many options, but there is a much more significant foreign language requirement than at most colleges. At least three semesters, unless you can place out, and then three more semesters in a cultural concentration (or more language). It is part of Tufts philosophy on graduating global citizens. Not sure if the requirements are the same for engineers. However, the campus and the students do seem similar to Brown.</p>
<p>Are you concerned about the accepted stats, though, Olymom? With very low GPAs, very high acceptance rates and very low SAT scores (bottom number of accepted 50 percentile is 510-460-480)?
I know GPA and SAT’s aren’t the entire picture, but low numbers combined with ultra high acceptances make me wonder exactly how intellectual and motivated the student body is…as they don’t seem to show from high school performance. Not that everyone does. I’m just pretty leery on that school…though as you say, go for a visit (it’s close), and it will speak to him or not.</p>
<p>Good idea to check that foreign language requirement at Tufts. After 10 years of French, I don’t know if he could bear any more!</p>
<p>Hi Busdriver:</p>
<p>From someone whose son just went through the college process this year, he looked at and had several colleges on this thread on his list.</p>
<p>He decided NOT to apply to Brown because of the sheer volume of applications. Same with Dartmouth. He also looked at Johns Hopkins, Northwestern, Lehigh, Carnegie Mellon, Cornell, Brandeis, Univ. of Rochester…and looked at Tufts and fell in love immediately with that school. Applied ED and was accepted and will be a freshman there in the fall.</p>
<p>We did a lot of research and touring. He ruled out UPenn. My suggestion is to make a preliminary list, get out and tour the schools. Even though Univ. of Rochester is not “ranked” as high as some of the other schools, we all loved it, including my son. It’s a quiet campus, wonderfully engaged, non-competitive students and my son met with a professor and had a wonderful chat. He was seriolusly considering that as a second school if he did not get into Tufts. By-the-way, we know someone at Univ. of Rochester now who is studying Biomedical Engineering and loves the school!</p>
<p>Univ. of Rochester has “clusters”. so they are probably closer related to Brown’s curriculum than other schools. Get on the mailing lists and have colleges send you brochures. Maybe take virtual tours of the schools. You’ll narrow down your list in no time! Good luck!</p>
<p>Btw:
My S is double majoring in Economics and Spanish, so does not mind the language requirement 
but it is high for a college, I think it may be 4 semesters worth, yikes!</p>