<p>Okay guys. Let's settle this once and for all. I keep hearing all the Berkeley students claim that their school competes with HYPS for students and academic prestige. However, when I looked at the cross-admit numbers, virtually nobody who gets into HYPS chooses to enroll at Berkeley. It is quite possible that in some years ZERO HYPS admits choose Berkeley. Therefore, how can Berkeley claim to be an academic peer of HYPS if its graduation rates, cross-admit statistics, and undergraduate quality lags so far behind? Berkeley creates an image of itself that it is far above schools like Cornell, UMich, U of Chicago, UCLA, UCSD, and the University of Virginia. However, Berkeley shares many more cross-admits and has similar graduation rates as these schools. In fact, Berkeley and UCLA have almost identical selectivity and grad rates. Do you guys think that Berkeley truly is above and beyond schools like UCLA and Cornell as it claims to be? Is Berkeley at the level of HYPS as it claims to be? Or do you guys think Berkeley is overrated? </p>
<p>From the tone of my post, you can tell which opinion I have. But if any of you share different opinions, I'd like to hear them too.</p>
<p>I agree with you uber that Berkeley is overrated on collegeconfidential. Berkeley is definitely much more similar in quality and selectivity to schools like UCLA, UVA, UPenn, Cornell, UMich, etc than it is to HYPSM.</p>
<p>Berkeley is somewhere in between. Academically, it is as good as Harvard and Stanford. But in terms of resources and student body, is it not quite up there. I would say Cal belongs in the top 10 for sure, but is it as good as HMPSY? I do not think so. And for the record, I have not met many Cal students who think it is. Playfully, they will say that Stanford sucks, but in a serious conversation, most will tell you exactly where Cal stands.</p>
<p>Graduate programs and somewhat for professional programs, UC Berkeley is at the same level as HYPSM. </p>
<p>For undergrad, its peers are around the range of:
Northwestern
Brown
Cornell
Johns Hopkins
Chicago
Rice
Michigan
Virginia
UCLA
Georgetown</p>
<p>The reason why I say range is that Berkeley has SOME of the top students in California and students that have better academic credentials than SOME students at the above list of schools, but not every student fits into this category. You have a share of UCLA-rejects at Berkeley too (I'm assuming UCLA isn't on the same level as SOME of the schools in the above list. That's why i said RANGE.</p>
<p>(btw i noticed my list is similar to flopsy's haha)</p>
<p>"For undergrad, its peers are around the range of:
Northwestern
Brown
Cornell
Johns Hopkins
Chicago
Rice
Michigan
Virginia
UCLA
Georgetown"</p>
<p>I don't think Berkeley is a peer with the ivies like Brown and Cornell. Berkeley is around the level of UVA, UCLA, UMich, UNC-CH, and privates like USC, Georgetown, etc.</p>
<p>If I had to compare Cal to a couple of schools, I would say it is a cross between MIT and Chicago. Michigan is the closest public to Cal, but not quite the same. Michigan is more of a cross between Cornell, Penn and Duke. UNC and Cal have almost nothing in common.</p>
<p>and i dont think UVA should be Berkeley's peer, UVa focuses more on liberal arts subjects, while Berkeley is more of science school. I'd probably choose Michigan rather than Berkeley for anything though. 42% Asians (the majority of them would be Chinese, and I'm not counting international students) at UCB is pretty crazy.....i'm no racist tho (I'm a Chinese myself and want to be more exposed to Western culture, not cling to people who strongly hold ASN pride crap)</p>
<p>Untitled - there are thousands upon thousands of white people at Berkeley as well. Don't be so quick to judge your fellow Asians, many are the same as you. Instead, keep an open mind and be yourself, make friends with whoever, regardless of race. You will find that if you don't get along with the AZN pride type kids too well, you won't end up around them.</p>
<p>comparing any top public witih any top private is really comparing apples and oranges, IMO. Private schools just have more resources per student, as Alexandre notes. That means more counselors, more equipment, a less competitive nature, not to mention grade inflation, which can yield higher grad school admit rates. If money is not an issue, a top private beats a top public for most kids; it would provide a better undergraduate experience. OTOH, $18k/yr vs. $40k is can be meaningful for many.</p>
<p>btw: The cross admits stats mean little since the research out there is extremely poorly done, (but that's a different issue).</p>
<p>Alexadre:</p>
<p>given its new found enthusiasm for sports, not sure Berkeley wants to be considered with UofC (terminated Amos Alonzo Stagg, common core), nor MIT (belongs with CalTech - LOL).</p>
<p>Untilted:</p>
<p>rather extreme view; there are plenty of liberal arts majors in L&S. Berkeley has one of the top English departments, one of the top history departments, one of the top poli sci departments, top philosophy, etc. Actually, in the sciences, Chem and Engineering are highly ranked (top 5). Most other sciences are relative 'slackers'; only ranked 10-15.</p>
<p>Bluebayou, I am not too sure about private universities having such a clear edge in resources. Not anymore anyway. Schools like Michigan and UVA now have over $150,000 of endowment per student and spend over $60,000 on each student annually. Schools like Penn, Cornell and Brown have roughly $200,000-$250,000 of endowment per student and spend $70,000-$75,000 pers student annually. We aren't talking about huge differences. Cornell's classes are, on average, about the same size as Michigan and UVA classes...and Brown's classes are only slightly smaller.</p>
<p>Uber, collegeperson, gutrade, rooster, and many others obviously think Cal is seriously up-there, if they didn't they would just ignore it, but if you look at each of thier profiles you'll see that each of these people spends most of their time talking about Cal. They are the only ones who start posts like this because we (Cal students) already know what Cal is all about. These guys (besides Uber, who goes to a ccc) must all be very unsure about their choices in schools if they feel the need to think about Cal during every waking moment. Let it go! You're the only people who even care!</p>