What Should I do?

Paying for College
41

<p>CRD: My son will is a rising senior in an engineering program at University of Washington. He started school at Cal Poly and after a year and a half, realized he didn’t like CA, hated the heat, and wanted more opportunity to get internships and make professional contacts in the area he wanted to live and work for the rest of his life (western WA). He left CP with a 3.85 GPA (meaning grades/rigor had nothing to do with his choice to leave). </p>

<p>UW only admits students in most engineering programs for fall quarter, and with a very rare exception, doesn’t take any transfer students from 4 year universities. So, son withdrew from CP and had no other choice but to attend a cc for two quarters during which time he completed the required engineering pre reqs and applied to transfer to UW. I was very VERY skeptical about the whole plan, because I thought the education he would get at cc would be subpar. </p>

<p>I couldn’t have been more wrong. Son took 7 pre-engineering courses at the cc and raved about the instructors, the support and the rigor. He insisted that the education was at least as good as the one he got at CP. In several of the cc classes, they used the same texts and moved at the same pace as his CP classmates. Still, I was skeptical about his assessment and basically convinced that he’d be eaten alive by a cohort that started at UW and had been “pumping iron” in their most important engineering prep classes. </p>

<p>Turns out that UW accepted more students into his department from cc’s than from the UW underclass pool of applicants that year, because, according to the undergrad advisor in his department, there were more qualified applicants from ccs. He just finished up his first year–had 10 classes (all engineering) and insists that in every class, as a whole the cc transfer students are faring much better than the non-transfer students. By mandate, all engineering course grades at UW are curved with a median grade at 2.8, so the students are very aware of how they stack up compared to their classmates. Had dinner with one of his classmates the other night who agreed it’s true–he’s also noticed that the cc transfers are getting better grades. </p>

<p>Apparently small classes, being taught by professors rather than TA’s and having almost unfettered access to instructors does make a big difference. </p>

<p>My stereotype was wrong and I think yours might be too.</p>

42

<p>CRD, what do you know about OP, beyond this desire and that he/she figured out finaid and loans and would like to spare the parents as much expense as possible?</p>

43

<p>Scubasue, my opinions come from what I’ve seen at work, and what my professor friends have told me about the benefit of being challenged by your peers in their programs, and the benefits I received being challenged by my peers at MIT. </p>

<p>I just don’t hear stories of the students from the community colleges outperforming the students from the flagship. Yours is the first. I’ve heard stories of the opposite happening. Deer in the headlights is an expression I’ve heard more than once. I don’t know anyone who started at a community college, except as a dual enrollment student in high school. I saw as a TA myself that MIT graduate students who went to schools that weren’t competitive just had no idea how good you had to be to get an A at the top level. Many were just blown away. </p>

<p>Maybe there is something to be desired in going to a resource limited school where you can’t get any help. I’ve heard of that at some schools like Rutgers, but I hadn’t heard of that at UConn, which always seemed like a well funded place in a state that placed a high value on education. </p>

<p>I’m still not buying that students are better off educationally at the CC than the flagship, and I don’t believe it’s even close to as good. </p>

<p>They must have some really great CCs out west. The ones I know of are open enrollment. The kid with the 1.1 gpa in HS could be your classmate.</p>

44

<p>

</p>

<p>That s/he got in and is attending UConn, plans to study computer science, and probably doesn’t know how to calculate whether s/he will be able to pay back the loans. </p>

<p>The wanting to spare parents expense is commendable, but it’s a shame when it’s unnecessary and relegates the OP to be less than s/he could be because s/he is unwilling to take a small risk.</p>

45

<p>The kid with the 1.1 GPA might be your classmate in English 101, but I’d bet he’d QUICKLY get weeded out of pre engineering classes.</p>

46

<p>We have one cc in our state that is essentially a feeder school for the UW engineering programs. The other ccs send a few students, but really it’s only a handful, mostly because they don’t offer all the prereq’s required to apply to UW’s program. So, I’m really only talking about a group of students at UW from one cc; but that cc pulls in students from all over the state who want to complete the pre engineering program and then transfer. </p>

<p>I also am not insisting that in every cohort of engineering students at UW, the cc transfer students are more competitive. That could be true, or son’s class could be a “blip”. The point is that the cc route deserves more credit than I initially gave it and I wouldn’t automatically write off every cc program as one that produces subpar students. If the OP wants to consider that route, he needs to do more research about the cc programs in CT.</p>

47

<p>As usual, the Classic Rocker has the facts.</p>

48

<p>I think i might as well take this risk… I’m not going to expect to live luxuriously after college but at least I will never have to regret for not taking this risk/chance. Maybe on the bright side, I will study very hard and get hired at a well payed company. Sure CC is cheaper but will their courses provide a better foundation that I will be needing for my major, I dont know for sure. If I do the calculations right… I have to put 1000-1200 into paying the loan per month… I wont expect a car or a house but to simply live frugally with a dorm mate i guess until its payed off. Thanks a lot guys for all the input.</p>

49

<p>I did the calculations assuming that the all payments are deferred for 4 years, that interest accumulates on the PLUS and the non-subsidized, and that the PLUS loans are paid with a 25 year amortization. I also assume maximum Stafford loans and the amount of the PLUS loan increasing by 4% per year. </p>

<p>I come up with a balance upon graduation of $80,941 with a monthly payment of $729.10. It will be less if Congress gets off it’s duff and I expect them to. </p>

<p>So basically, you’ll need to allocate about $8750 per year to payoff the loans. You will still net more than a new teacher. </p>

<p>Anything more, you can weigh paying off against other options like a house, a car, or investments. It’s not unbearable or unreasonable. Your CS career is a potentially wonderful and lucrative investment. </p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

50

<p>CRD…new teachers net more than $9000 a year…no need for the veiled insult.</p>

51

<p>Of course, everyone graduates in 4 years and everyone who starts in CS finishes in CS. Right.</p>

52

<p>And of course everyone wants to still have college loans to repay for 25 years…NOT.</p>

53

<p>What meant was that I think </p>

<p>$60K - taxes - $8750 > $40K - taxes. </p>

<p>No veiled insult intended. Is 40K a reasonable estimate for a new teacher? If not put in your own number. </p>

<p>And I don’t think it will take 25 years to repay the loans. After a few years the salary could easily approach $100K and prepayments can commence. I was just calculating the initial debt service upon entering the work force and pointing out that it isn’t horrible. </p>

<p>If it takes longer to graduate, the balance and payments might be 7% higher per extra year. Doesn’t change the decision in my view. The glass is half full.</p>

54

<p>7%? Yeah, right. If he needs a 5th year, his grant will be gone, his federal loans will be gone, and who knows if the parents will qualify for all of the plus loans you are signing them up for.</p>

55

<p>sz1265 - </p>

<p>Please just make darned sure that your parents are willing to take on the amount of debt you’re signing them up for. Remember, the PLUS loans are theirs, not yours, so if there’s any problem with repayment, it’s going to be their problem.</p>

<p>Please also sit down with them and review their financial situation carefully. It’s all well and good to jump into this with the expectation that you’ll be able to pay off the debt once you graduate . . . but if, at any point over the next three years, they fail to qualify for continued PLUS loans, you won’t be graduating. And if you have to drop out of school (temporarily, of course :rolleyes:) due to the lack of a PLUS loan, your own student loan payment obligations are going to kick in - on top of the obligation you’ll already have for your parents’ debt. Default on your student loans and - guess what! - you won’t be going back to school until you can pay the full cost YOURSELF.</p>

<p>Yes, I’m trying to scare you. If this goes south, it’s going to go REALLY far south! So, evaluate the criteria your parents will need to satisfy in order to repeatedly qualify for those large PLUS loans, and don’t go into this unless you’re reasonably confident that they will continue to qualify. Lose those PLUS loans and you are screwed . . . and that is not a risk you can afford to take!</p>

<p>Be aware that you have given us almost no information about your parents’ financial situation (other than the facts they they didn’t attend college themselves and aren’t able to pay any of the costs for you to attend college) . . . and even if you had, none of us would be able to predict whether your parents will continue to qualify for PLUS loans. It’s a huge variable . . . and without those loans, the entire house of cards falls down.</p>

56

<p>You have some posters on your side. You are encouraged to go to UConn because you got into UConn. I hope the missing details here are stengths in math-sci and a solid, competitive grounding in hs. I hope you have some experience and that this is a well considered academic goal. And that you are a stick-to-it sort. Best wishes.</p>

<p>one footnote to dodgersmom’s post: at whatever point you leave this program, as a graduate or before completing a degree, within months those loans start due and you pay til they are done.</p>

57

<p>A lot of good points have been brought up in this thread. The fact of the matter is that though the ideal thing for the op, as well as for many , if not most students and their families, is to get to go away to college, when you have to borrow that much money to do so, you are taking a bad risk that can mean a tough go for a long time afterwards.</p>

<p>There are some who can take out that kind of loan amounts and do all right, but most of those are going to have help from their parents in the repayment and in getting set up for a job. Jobs are not automatic and there are costs associated to getting them. If your parents are not able to help you now, they are not likely going to be able to do so later. And if you can t make those payments on the loans in THEIR names on THEIR credit history, you could cause considerable damage to them. Not to mention to yourself.</p>

<p>The STEM majors have a very large failure and change of major rate. Not always easy to tell who is going to decide s/he wants out for any number of reasons. The problem is if you should change your mind about this course of study after paying for 2 years at UConn, finding a less expensive venue to finish up and get your degree, is going to be an issue.</p>

<p>I would not hesitate to borrow, as a parent, or recommend a parent or student to take the risk of debt for a student who has gotten through those required courses at a local college or cc and is poised to give the 4 year college a try. But to take that risk right out of high school, ummm,…To put that much on the line is a whole other story.</p>

<p>I ve told the story of my friend whose dd borrowed and the parent borrowed (invested, is how she put it) about what the op and parents are poised to do. Interest accrues on the unsub loans the instant the funds are released. Prices go up. Things happen so that you may need more than planned. 18 year olds change their minds, as they well should at that age. Long story short, girl changed major, took some extra time, graduated in a liberal arts major, is working part time, not making ends meet, defaulted on loans, parent and student in even more debt, no prospect to pay it off. Very bad situation. And we are talking about someone who was A1 in prospects at the onset.</p>

<p>So my advice is to take heed of the risks of borrowing that kind of money with your parents on the financial hook for what they will not be able to afford if things don t work the way planned. Ther are drawbacks to going to, or local state,commuting, but if you can succeed in getting in shape to getting a cs degree after 2 years, it’s a risk worh taking. Right now, it s not.</p>

58

<p>Wow, I’m truly shocked at some of the ignorant posts here about CC. I went to CC for my general ed. requirements and the rigor at the CC was much more intense than the rigor I experienced at University of Arkansas. When I transferred to U of A, I sailed through classes and was shocked that I never had to study. I’m all for rooting someone on to achieve their dreams but what exactly is the reason for bringing in blanket statements about something that you have no statistics, (seemingly) knowledge, or proof to back up?</p>

<p>To the OP, I agree with others that you should be willing to accept that this could be a potential disaster. If your parents eventually get denied for loans, you are basically done unless you can pick up the slack yourself. As stated, I attended CC before transferring to my state’s university and received an excellent education and internship due to those experiences. If I were you personally, I would go for the CC then transfer to UCONN where you can then reapply for Parent PLUS loan, federal loans, etc. Just my 2 cents :slight_smile: I hope you will keep us updated on your decision.</p>

59

<p>You don’t have much chance of a well paying job if you don’t graduate. Aren’t you listening to what people are saying ?</p>

<p>Are you not understanding that as soon as you don’t qualify for the next loan that you won’t be able to go to school at all and will have to start paying off your loans without the benefit of a degree that will get you a good job? It is foolish to think that your parents will be able to qualify for $80k in loans, just X-ing fingers and hoping.</p>

<p>The CC classes are good enough to transfer in for the important classes, which are your upper division classes. Just do well in those prereqs and gen ed reqs. I’m afraid you are trading off a sensible plan for immediate gratification.</p>

60

<p>My parents will not be taking out 80,000 of loans, because every year I’m allowed to borrow a extra thousand in my subsidized loans, If i work during school and summer that may cut ot 4000-6000 so Sophmore year, my parent may only need to borrow 12360-4000-1000= 7000 and hopefully with more work it wont accumulate to 80 grand of debt. I dont think I can do 2 years of three rivers CC and graduate 3 years in Uconn… I think I won’t save much. Maybe in the summer, I will work 7 days a week if i have to. It maybe tiresome, but I’m willing to do anything to get this education.</p>