<p>You didn’t say his age or if he’s already been accepted. Has he already been accepted to Promys? How old is he?</p>
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<p>I suppose that could happen, but it isn’t too likely. Again, I’m not familiar with PROMYS, but I do know that hanging out playing video games is not the plan. If he’s willing to do all the math required to get accepted, that’s a lot of work and brainpower expended just for the chance to get away from you to play video games in peace. And alone, because most of the kids will NOT be there to game.
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<p>My son did not turn in the homework most of the time at his math camp, but usually because he was having more fun discussing the math with other kids than he would have been writing it down as homework. I can’t begrudge that - it sounds like a great tradeoff to me. Even without turning it in, he learned a lot about specific math and about how math is done. </p>
<p>I guess I’m the only one that still thinks that working a tough summer job where he’ll get fired if he doesn’t wake up in time for work or if he doesn’t work hard (which will be a slice of reality especially if he doesn’t do well in college or go to college) is better than going to a math camp :)</p>
<p>@pierre0913: That’s all right; we still love you! ;)</p>
<p>The reason I’m so much in favor of his going to math camp is in the hope that it will feed his excitement for academics. The idea of a tough job has the same goal of making him interested. The difference, I guess, is just whether he’s running TO math or AWAY from the mean boss.</p>
<p>The truth of the matter is that jobs are very hard to come by these days, especially if the kid has waited until now to look. (But there is a better chance if he intends to also stick with it during the school year, which could force him to better plan his time.during the school year.) </p>
<p>“Boys are hard” - Am I the only one that had an easy (sort of) teen boy and a harder teen girl? In the early days the little guy was our tougher one, the undriven “absent minded professor”, with (gasp) a few C’s in middle school. Oh, how things have changed. </p>
<p>Enough rambling. I vote for a challenging math camp if it is still an option. If he screws that up, you’ll both know that college options are limited. (Doing well will not guarantee college success, but certainly screwing up a fun camp will mean hard stuff won’t be feasible.)</p>
<p>Kid doesn’t want to do his schoolwork, but he wants mom to pay for an expensive camp that HE thinks will look good to colleges.</p>
<p>I translate that as: I figure mom can buy me an admission to college without my having to expend too much effort. </p>
<p>Why should he work during the year if he thinks going to this camp will get colleges to admit him? </p>
<p>Maybe I’m off base, and maybe this camp will get him motivated to do his schoolwork. But I’m inclined to agree with the OP. Show me that you are willing to do your schoolwork, and THEN I’ll consider paying for camp.</p>
<p>Uh… it could’ve been my brother a few years back with this kind of behavior and attitude… parents let him go to a summer school in a major city. Did he come back as a better person and student? Person, maybe, more independent. But student? Hell no. His GPA remained flat, an evidence that he learned little about study habits to help him succeed in his senior year and college.</p>
<p>So honestly, no. Tell him to get a grunt job if you’re looking for signs that he is able to function in the real world. That’s what my brother did after his freshman year for the summer. He actually now goes to bed and wakes up early! He rarely sleeps in! He doesn’t play <em>too</em> much video games as he did! He takes care of things around the house! His managers love him! Rejoice! A step is a step. Even if it’s all not going to translate to his academic work.</p>
<p>Boys tend to need physical stimulation that gives a sense of responsibility. It’s evolutionary biology. Math camp isn’t going to be for him unless he’s truly one of those geek guys who thinks about the world in terms of mathematics.</p>
<p>Hope, my oldest son did attend PROMYS at age 16, and it was very positive experience for him. Your son has to understand that he will not be allowed to sleep in and miss class. If he doesn’t want to do the work, he will be asked to leave. He has to love doing math. Many of the kids my son met went on to very good colleges and I consider PROMYS an excellent investment.</p>
<p>If your son has any savings, he should pay for some part of camp, even if it only his spending money or transportation costs.</p>
<p>If the kid has been accepted at PROMYS, send him! If he’s that talented at math, he’s been having a boring time in school. Now, at last, he gets to be with people who think like him, and he gets to solve interesting problems instead of stupid obvious problems requiring pointless drudgery. Send him.</p>
<p>I can’t express how miserable some teen males are – they KNOW they should work harder. They KNOW they should make better grades. Yelling at them or humiliating them does not improve the situation. </p>
<p>What does work? Well, for starters, not repeating the same stuff that has not been working so far. </p>
<p>Math camp is an unknown. It might be that the kid sleeps through it for two weeks. At that point I’d have the kid evaluated for health problems (sleep apnea, mononucleosis, etc) because there are legitimate things that can make it impossible to get up and going. </p>
<p>More likely he will have a blast – and he will “owe” you one. This, I must admit, has been a very successful parenting strategy for me. I am not a door mat. I expect daily contributions of helping out. I have plainly clear expectations for being nice and for respecting others. But I will also go the extra mile for a kid. I will drive a forgotten paper to school. I will allow a sleepover of many even when grades are sagging. I will fetch a friend without transportation from the far side of the county and haul the kid home again later. </p>
<p>And I try to do this with a generous heart. I don’t trade one good deed of mine for one of theirs – but I do have some “ammo” that I will use when needed. </p>
<p>So, what is a fair trade for math camp? Something small that the kid knows he can accomplish. Not “All A’s for the rest of your high school career” but “Fifteen minutes of cheerful helping out every day you are home this summer. Mother to provide daily list for the fifteen minutes”. Type that up, and both of you sign it and put it on the fridge. Off he goes to math camp. And when he comes home, dig in and insist he keep that fifteen minutes daily promise. At the end of the summer, he knows some more math and some more housekeeping. </p>
<p>Win-win. Read “What Shamu taught me” about animal behavior. Go for small, manageable steps and train him up.</p>
<p>Just as a 17 year old guy creepin’ in the parents forum, I’m surprised by how accurate the above post reflects me. ("they KNOW they should work harder. They KNOW they should make better grades. Yelling at them or humiliating them does not improve the situation. "). My grades are good, but I let to many grades slip to JUST below a 90 and yet I really didn’t do anything about it even though I KNEW I had to. </p>
<p>I don’t try very hard in school (I don’t do poorly though). I come home and sleep instead… I really don’t even play video games that much. I really can’t even describe how hard it is to spend my day studying when I am so tired that I could sleep for 3-4 hours (which I often do). That does not, however, mean I am not intellectually motivated. I spend my free time reading (I read more books than anyone I’ve ever met) or watching documentaries or hanging out with friends. I enjoy learning and look forward to college. HS just bores me to tears, as it is too simplistic and often bogged down by inept teachers.</p>
<p>Sounds like he is pretty normal, tbh. I’d send him to the camp. I’m going to Villanova this summer… not to impress colleges or anything. I’m actually looking forward to spending a week and half at a college honestly. </p>
<p>My philosophy: Performance in HS is no way, shape, or form, a sign of someone’s potential. Do what you enjoy.</p>
<p>That’s a good point, but for people interested in college the high school transcript is often used as a metric not just for admissions but to gain and retain many forms of financial assistance. Also, high school is a great way to develop the skills that you need in most adult situations (college and working). I don’t want to be too negative here, but the working world can be boring at times and often feels like a slog; inept people (some of whom will have authority over you) will never go away even after high school graduation. If you don’t learn these skills during high school – when the stakes are relatively low and there is a safety net present to assist you – then you’re going to have to learn them eventually. </p>
<p>I do agree with you, as I said, that poor high school performance isn’t a death sentence. But eventually you’re going to have to turn these things around because the problems that you encounter in high school don’t necessarily vanish.</p>
<p>I know. I’m not saying you should outright fail high school. I certainly care, considering the schools I’m looking at and my tendency to be ultra-competitive and a perfectionist. Its just grades aren’t everything to me. But yeah, you’re right. In an ideal world we would be rid of inept people :p</p>
<p>And they shouldn’t be; how dreary would be the world if everyone were obsessed with high school grades! I’m just saying that some people (not you but the kid being described in the OP) seem to think that high school is this dull, boring, pathetic dungeon that they can just blow off and after that when they’re adults everything will be super-easy and nothing will ever be boring, frustrating, or feel pointless. All I’m trying to say is that silliness, frustration, and boredom never really go away and people who don’t learn how to deal with those things when they’re young (when they actually have time and resources designed to help them!) will have to learn them when they’re adults (when they’re at risk of losing a job because they thought their bosses were inept or thought it was all “busy work” that they were too cool to have to do). </p>
<p>There’s no need to obsess over grades or turn into a perfectionist but school is a great opportunity to learn how to manage your time wisely and learn patience and strength.</p>