<p>Opie, you're attributing quotes to me I didn't make.</p>
<p>And you are right, I don't read Walt's comments like you do. Is it that awful that his parents are willing to take on debt for his education? Don't lots of parents? I'm not seeing your subtext; I'm really not.</p>
<p>thumper: I think my son's aid included money to cover the school health plan. However, my partner has generous insurance that covers opposite sex domestic partner children, so son is covered with that. He may very well have co-pays or prescription expenses, but I am not paying for them any more -- he's covering them himself, I assume, since he hasn't mentioned them to me, but I know he's had medical care and medications at school.</p>
<p>"And you are right, I don't read Walt's comments like you do. Is it that awful that his parents are willing to take on debt for his education? Don't lots of parents? I'm not seeing your subtext; I'm really not"</p>
<p>If they said they're willing to pay, willing to indebt themselves why the hunt for more money? I would figure once you stated you're willing to carry debt, why the need to find more money? </p>
<p>He hasn't stated it's to reduce their debt. It's not I'm looking for savings in an empty nest household so my folks won't have to pay so much.. so yes, I'm going to ask why? Something along the lines of they are looking at taking on 10k debt and I want to find ways to show them that by me being at college they'll have extra money so they won't have to take 10k maybe 8k instead... that's looking to help parents.. no? </p>
<p>"Is it that awful that his parents are willing to take on debt for his education?"</p>
<p>NO it's wonderful, that's why I am questioning a bit, because I'm trying to figure out if he wants them to spend more or show them savings to offset.. two different motivations... </p>
<p>"My parents have told me that they will pay for my education even if that entails them accruing debt on my behalf. That's all that you need to know."</p>
<p>And so far, instead of explaining that he's looking to reduce their debt possibilities, it's none of my business? I would think that it's pretty noble of a kid trying to figure ways for their parents to take on less debt for their college education and that would be something pretty neat, not nobody's business....</p>
<p>"They WANT to help in ANY way they can, as I said before, even if that means entailing (more) debt. Instead, what I'm trying to do, is to show them that it may be possible to help me out with school without taking out loans"</p>
<p>So I guess the kid's noble after all..geese can't you guys start out clearly and make this statement in your first post, rather than #32? </p>
<p>Sorry kid, had you pegged wrong. </p>
<p>Do your parents keep a monthly record of expenditures? Start there.</p>
<p>
[quote]
So I guess the kid's noble after all..geese can't you guys start out clearly and make this statement in your first post, rather than #32?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>So now it's Walter's fault that you're cynical, Opie?</p>
<p>I find it quite refreshing that he is trying to save his parents money. He is concerned about their financial well-being and trying to reassure them. Is that so bad? In another thread you upbraided another student for feeling entitled. There's no pleasing you, is there?</p>
<p>Back to the real issue:</p>
<p>Walter, on the new Harvard financial aid thread, Hazmat has posted some figures about cost of attendance at Harvard. Use those figures as guidelines for adding onto the tuition, room and board at the college you are thinking of.
The biggest savings will be in lower car insurance. The savings on food and other incidentals may come up to a couple of thousands of dollars. If you are going from a warm to a cold climate area, those savings will be wiped out by the cost of outfitting you with winter clothing.</p>
<p>Other savings we have as S#1 is in college, but still have S#2 at home</p>
<p>-Save 10 dollars a week on skate sharpening
-S#1's school pays for all his hockey equipment--this saves about 100-200 per month in broken sticks, etc
-S#1 is no longer playing club fall hockey, so that saved 1000 dollars this year
-Took car insurance off S#1's car when he is not home--net $400 dollar savings
-Less laundry, fewer showers = lower water bill
-Less food---S#2 is much less pickey about his meals</p>
<p>Just a few things----</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>some parents who have students in college already, and they've been surprised at the costs of students' "discretionary spending," >></p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>Ah...the "discretionary spending" issue. That spending is not supported by the parents in this household. That is money earned by the student. And I do NOT bail my kids out on this issue. There are lots of opinions about this here and many threads that discuss that. AND every family should make their own decisions re: how to manage "spending money".</p>
<p>Now...back to the savings. DD is home right now. The TV and/or computer have been on 24/7. The LONG hot showers are definitely going to up the utility bill this month.</p>
<p>Utilities bills down 13%! Water usage probably way down, but we have a well, so no way to know. </p>
<p>We pay tuition, room, board, related fees. D takes care of all spending with savings from her summer job. She knows that she will have to get a job at school if she needs more money. Fortunately, all her friends at school seem to be in the same boat! One good thing for her ... washers & dryers are free!!</p>
<p>Tough one, yes our water bill is alittle lower - 7 less showers, 3 less loads of laundry each week. Our food bill is static, mostly because food costs have risen this year. We eat out maybe once a month so that is alittle less. We never did allowances and S1 has had a job since he was 16 for pocket money, gas and such -- so for my family, the per month cost difference is really not much positive impact and entirely eaten up in higher gas costs for H and I. All in all, I would guess it's south of $100 a month compared to the thousands his college education is costing each month.</p>
<p>I send my D items that I can get on sale...shampoos, razors, etc</p>
<p>She is in school in NYC, and yes she can buy the items, but I have more opportunity to get the deals---sometimes two for one shampoos, etc</p>
<p>and I can stick in the box (costs 9bucks) lots of stuff </p>
<p>It may cost me 9 dollars, but I have usually saved much more than that</p>
<p>
<p>So? gar? what's your take on this? Is there a need to itemized to find more?
I already addressed this earlier in the thread (post #16). My son's first year of college I borrowed $10K (PLUS loan). I paid a loan origination fee based on the percentage borrowed, and I started accruing payments that year.</p>
<p>I didn't need to borrow $10K; I could have borrowed $6K -- the origination fee would have been less, the interest would have been less, the monthly payment would have been less. </p>
<p>I made that mistake because I failed to account for the $1800 I saved in car insurance, and the $2000 shaved off the bill for groceries & other sundries. </p>
<p>Opie is trying to help his parents budget for next year so that they don't make the same mistake I did. The minute Opie reported that his parents plan to borrow then this calculation becomes very important -- I think that's the hardest part every year, figuring out in June whether I need to borrow and how much. I will be living with that decision for years to come as I pay down loans -- so yes, I do think a thousand here and a few hundred there is very important. For a PLUS loan, every $1,000 borrowed represents $448 in interest paid over the course of 10 years.</p>
<p>Not Opie. Opie is the one questioning why Walter (the OP) is asking advice from parents and impugning his motives.</p>
<p>Calmom:
To help Walter calculate what his parents could afford, suppose his parents did not borrow quite enough money, or meet some emergency that swallows up some of the money they'd saved from Walter not being at home. How easy is it to borrow additional money? would a new origination fee be even more expensive than the interest charged on too high loan?</p>
<p>"Not Opie. Opie is the one questioning why Walter (the OP) is asking advice from parents and impugning his motives"</p>
<p>Nice work marite..... did you raise your hand first? :) oh, oh, oh....</p>
<p>walt, for the next couple of months track household expenditures. If your parents don't use a software program, ask to borrow the checkbook (if they allow) and start to form a financial cash flow statement. After you track a few months to a year, you can reasonably project some ongoing cost reductions, providing everything stays static. You are going to need to ballpark on the low end to account for inflation and maybe upgrades in some areas. After you compile and track past expenditures to form a monthly or quarterly pattern, look at the future NEW expenditures..namely travel and hotels.. how far away are you going, when's dad day, mom's day and parents weekend. Check hotel costs around the school you are planning to attend. Check airfare, transportation costs. You actually may find it is a push or actually more, depending on new expenses..</p>
<p>Opie posted" So? gar? what's your take on this? Is there a need to itemized to find more?." -- that's the part I was responding to in my quote above.
No, the origination fee on a PLUS loan is a flat percentage of the total -- it doesn't matter when the money is taken. Of course, that is an added factor on top of the interest. Assuming the minimum 3% origination fee, that's +$30 for every $1000 borrowed.</p>
<p>
You are assuming that the parents are going to pick up the kids incidentals. Hotel costs, parents weekend, all of those are extras that we poor borrowing-for-college parents don't sign on for. I don't know about Walter, but my arrangement with my kids are pretty close ended in terms of expenses beyond tuition and housing -- I expect the incidentals to come out of the kid's earnings and I wouldn't do the frills of extra travel back & forth if money was tight. I'll generally pay for 2 round trip air fare tickets as well --allowing a single trip home for winter break as well as a return over the summer. I don't pay for books either -- for me, its important to keep a handle on the total so other than the airfare, the deal is I pay the bill from the bursar, kid pays for everything else. With that plan, there are no unanticipated extra costs for the parent to add into the mix. (Geez, the one big advantage for me of having my d. attend school in NYC is a potential weekend in the big city with NO hotel bills - she flies out on her own, and if I have extra cash on the spring, I can fly out to visit her and stay in her dorm room for free. Coupled with her ability to get discounts on show tickets, its a cut-rate vacation for me as an optional perk).</p>
<p>"You are assuming that the parents are going to pick up the kids incidentals"</p>
<p>No, I think you might have mistunderstood. I was talking about new parent expenses for their travel to visit. Before my kids attended their schools, I had no need to visit those particular cities. but we visited enough to get free nights from a hotel chain. So, prior to college, that wasn't a "family" expense. So while looking at past family budget, one must also think about new expenditures due to location change. Travel and lodging you weren't doing before (roughly 15 nights in hotels to visit kids at school out of state) can cancel out any saving from having that child out of the house.. that was my point.</p>