<p>How do you parents/kids handle it when a high school director seems to not want to cast kids who do community theater? Ours seems to have a bias and repeatedly will not pick kids who have more experience and talent than other kids at the school? This has happened many times in the past, and happened last night to my kid. Most kids told her she'd rocked the audition, and she is stuck in the chorus.It feels unfair because kids who may want to study musical theater in college need credits on their resume I assume.
The auditions at the school are sort of a dog and pony show, kids don't read any dialog, did not read with other actors who they'd play opposite, your typical political casting that happens at this age.The director, himself a former actor, loves to tell the kids" You know how it goes" I agree that is what happens in the real world, but when you are a teenager your high school is your world, and I think not being cast is more painful than the "real world". She is understandably upset, but dried her tears and went to another audition that night. Amazing.Still though, she feels like she is going to be miserable during the show.
I had her talk to him, he told her the audition was amazing he just thought other kids would be better for the part. Some kids who've had this fate with him have quit the show. She is willing to tough it out, and will audition for community shows.
What do you do in cases like this? do you talk to the school? let it go? It is very tough to watch your kids suffer.What would you do? do you talk to the school?</p>
<p>same thing has happened to me. i’m not sure if it’s because i do other shows, or just because she doesn’t like me for some reason, but my director has clear favorites.
last year for our production the auditions were completely messed up. she picked the show to center it around one kid, and did not really take into account the other talent at our or school. some of the kids she gave parts to didn’t really make sense. it seemed to me while they ended up doing a good job, there were other people who could’ve played that parts really well. i stuck it out (ensemble), and it ended up to be a fun production, just because of my cast mates.
this year, we did another “big production” and it was pretty much chosen for the same kid. this year some administrators stopped by because of complaints about the auditions last year. she still had her favorites, and she brought in some of her friends (two vocal coaches – one of which some of the students go to – if you go to her you definitely have an advantage over everyone else – do can’t afford that anyway)
the audition process ended up being ridiculous again. there was little chance for acting or anything, she just had us sing… i don’t think anyone throughout the process was expected to act or dance or anything.
regardless, the kids who everyone expected got most of the parts, and that was it. my one talented friend (who was a senior) got no part at all. i ended up deciding it would be a good idea to just quit this show, so i ended up making that decision and helping out with the middle school show for a little while.</p>
<p>it’s just frustrating because everyone does not get the same chance.</p>
<p>We had a similar experience with both our theater and chorus directors at our high school. Both seemed almost offended that our daughter “felt she had to go outside of the school programs to get what she needed…” I’m paraphrasing, but both expressed concern that she might be getting instruction that conflicted with theirs by getting private voice lessons, and doing outside theater. She had been cast as a lead in high school musicals and never missed a rehearsal or given less than her all, and yet the director her senior year (new to the program but an old-timer at the school) told her it was time to give someone else a chance as she apparently felt what he offered was not good enough. She was more shocked and mad than upset, and fortunately was cast in a regional production of Jekyll and Hyde the next week, so it all turned out for the best. She ended up dropping chorus also her senior year because of conflicts, but in a small part because the director gave her so much grief for taking private voice lessons that made her “un-learn” what he taught. Fortunately, she had plenty of other opportunities in our area, but I thought it was sad that they felt so intimidated. We did not complain to anyone because in the end, casting is so arbitrary that it is really hard to prove anything. I did have to laugh when the Principal asked her to sing at a graduation function and in front of both directors asked her why she hadn’t done the musical that year. My D tactfully answered that she had other commitments that probably wouldn’t have worked for the director. At one point when my D was auditioning for a fairly prestigious vocal competition with a large cash prize, the chorus director told me not to be too disappointed when she didn’t make it into the finals, as most of the competitors were fully committed to their high school chorus’ and therefore had more well-rounded experience. It felt great when she not only made it into the finals, but then won the over-all competition.</p>
<p>I would not make a big deal about the casting policies at the school, because it is hard to prove bias. Unfortunately, it is sort of the real world. I would make sure your daughter takes advantage of every performance venue in your area and auditions for every thing possible. I wouldn’t worry about her resume for college, because believe it or not, pretty much all that matters during college auditions is the audition itself. Make sure she is getting a lot of audition experience and voice and dance instruction so that she is prepared as possible during the college audition process. Her audition will speak for itself. Good luck!</p>
<p>I’m not on an audition pannel for a theatre department or anything, but as nice as a strong resume is, I know it isn’t a deciding factor for admission into an MT program. Bravo to your daughter for putting up with, what seems to be, a re-occurring theme of favoritism in high school casting. I personally never did theatre in high school because it… Didn’t exist. I spent all of my time in community and regional theatre building credits for my resume, which many programs find even more impressive. </p>
<p>I would recommend continuing to audition at your high school and everywhere else. Experience is experience and as much as chorus may stink, there is always an opportunity to shine. That being said, if another opportunity appears outside of high school I see nothing wrong with turning down the chorus role to do it. What does your D have to lose if she’s already in an unfair casting process? The more theatres you work with, the better. The more directors who cast you, the better. The more mediums you work in (plays- comedies and dramas vs. musicals) the better.</p>
<p>Training is also vital, so as wonderful as performing is, I think a lot of people forget how necessary it is to keep taking voice lessons and dance classes and searching for new material. It seems as if your daughter already has a positive, driven attitude in the face of adversity, competition, and let-down… Great qualities to have when entering the crazy world of auditioning for colleges. As sad as it is to be rejected, our career guarantees us for a lot of it. I say keep it up and don’t let anyone bring her down. :)</p>
<p>Hi Lucymom. If I might quote myself from another thread, “The dynamics of casting are an ever changing quicksand that shifts beneath one’s feet – any attempt to apply logic will typically only end in dismay.” I feel for your D not getting the part she wanted - in high school there is typically only one show casting - if you miss the boat it is the only ship sailing. </p>
<p>I do know HS directors, choir directors who do develop favorites or who are territorial and dislike when “their” students are engaged in activity outside the school - or even other school activities that might produce slight time commitment conflicts (example, football vs show choir, see GLEE). I, of course, cannot speak to the specific parameters at your high school.</p>
<p>I applaud your D’s decision to stay with the show. In a school situation it speaks well of good sportsmanship when a student wants to be part of the team - even in the chorus. A word of caution to all readers - do not ever drop a show because of your casting in a college situation - no matter what is said to you, you would likely be blacklisting yourself for the rest of your time at that particular school. The exception might be your last semester as a senior when an argument could reasonably be accepted that you want time to be available for professional auditions rather than being in yet another chorus role.</p>
<p>You ask what to do? Again, without knowing the specific dynamics of your HS situation and what sort of hard core non-situational evidence you might be able to present to a school administrator, my generic advice is to stand down. Also, are you or someone you know, qualified to step into the director’s role? Does that person have 160 - 200 hours to dedicate to the high school musical (usually with no compensation - or sometimes a rather small stipend)? I recall a HS football coach I respect who once told a dad of a player he would accept the dad’s suggestions of who should be playing what position if and only if the dad wanted to be at practice five days a week and at the games on Saturday for two weeks. Everyone wants the best for their kids, and sometimes the situation does not appear (or maybe actually is not) fair - but there is much to learned about accepting the cards that you are dealt, and hopefully taking as much enjoyment as you might in playing them.</p>
<p>The favoritism, biases, subjective nature of casting and “politics” of auditioning for shows is endemic to the field. It happens in high school, community theatre, college productions and professional productions, perhaps manifesting in different ways and to different degrees depending on the venue, but it’s there none-the -less. For high school students it can be particularly difficult because for many, if not most, high school students, school shows play a disproportionate role in performing opportunities and high school can be such a cloistered environment with wagging tongues. </p>
<p>From my point of view, high school shows should be all about the “fun factor”. Do them if you enjoy them and find them gratifying. Do them for the growth experience that working collaboratively on a production can be. Do them for the performing experience. Attempting to build a resume for college applications is the least of the reasons to do school shows. Not only can a resume be built through community productions, voice and dance classes, chorus, summer programs and other activities, but the reality is that most, if not all schools, look to a resume solely as an affirmation that a student has an enduring and consistent personal commitment to performing. Exponentially more important than the resume is the quality of the audition and academics. So do the school shows if they provide a positive experience. If they don’t, pursue other types of opportunities.</p>
<p>So, I would “let it go”. Talking to the school or the director just creates more drama on a variety of levels and then puts you in a position where you could be perceived as a “stage parent” with attendant discomfort for your daughter. In my experience, high school directors often take themselves much too seriously. Rather than try to get him to change, if he doesn’t know how to run the drama program like an effective educator and creates his own drama, then suggest to your daughter that she find more constructive and rewarding opportunities. He’ll get the message if he finds he has lost the pool of his most talented students. </p>
<p>As an aside, I agree with mtdog71’s comments about quitting because of disappointment when cast. Once you make the commitment, stick to it.</p>
<p>Same thing always happened to me for our musicals. I didn’t audition freshman or sophomore year for our musical because I was in a few community theater shows at the time. The director saw me sing at all our schools talent shows, concerts, etc, so she knew that I was serious about singing and performing in general. I auditioned junior year for All Shook Up, & thought since it was a show with a bunch of female belty roles it’d be perfect for me. I only got called back for one role, which ended up going to another girl who took private voice lessons with the director. I was put in the ensemble but I ended up quitting because I was cast in a mainstage show outside of school. The director was notorious for giving the most talented people small roles. We had a girl who made All-State and All-Eastern Choir (which is basically the best singers from the Northeast) & never got good parts in the musicals. I think it’s because our director was a failed actress who was just bitter that she was an English teacher instead of on Broadway. We got a new director this year but I was too busy with college auditions to do the musical, unfortunately. I only did the plays at my school, but it’s no great loss since our theater department is bad anyway.</p>
<p>It’s better just to let it go. If the parent tries to talk to the director it causes problems, I speak from experience.</p>
<p>I am shaking my head at the similarity of experiences.I have a great relationship with the school principal and vented to him a bit today. Funny, he seemed to totally get the situation, which has been told to him before. As he sees it, the director likes to give other kids a chance, and often turns down the more experienced, talented kids. He seemed to get it that it stings in the high school setting where you are trying to show your peers what you can do! A couple of years a few kids quit the show over casting. Others went downtown to a local community theater where they had better opportunities. I know in my heart he is a mean-spirited little man with a power complex. I just think he has no idea how badly it hurts kids when he plays these games. The principal recommended I talk to the director, which I may or may not. I need to calm down a bit so I’m not a crazy woman.
She will survive. She is such a stud that she dusted herself off and went down to season auditions for a theater company just hours after balling her head off at the news. Her older sister is now at one of the top theater programs in the country, and she too never had a lead with this guy.I know she will rise above, and that he is an idiot. My in box is full of supportive messages from other parents, and she got a lot of positive reinforcement today from kids who praised her work. I appreciate your insight and your support. Life will go on, and her success will be the best revenge.</p>
<p>As far as being admitted into a college MT program based on HS experience, don’t worry about it at all. It’s all based on the audition, not on previous shows you’ve been in.</p>
<p>Very insightful posts from mtdog and MichaelNKat. Yes, there can be favoritism in HS casting. (Don’t think it doesn’t exist in college casting, and in professional casting.) And yes, some school directors feel threatened by young actors who have outside experience. But keep in mind that taking a chorus role can be a valuable experience, and I agree that once you audition for a show, you should commit to it no matter what role you get. It’s called paying your dues.</p>
<p>It’s also not a good idea to second-guess a director’s casting choices. There are often behind-the-scene issues that performers are not privy to. And high school students are not always the best judges of who should be cast in a role. </p>
<p>In the end, as srw stated, it is your performance at the college audition that matters, not what is on your resume.</p>
<p>I realize from similar experiences with my D that this kind of casting drama happens a lot, and I am not terribly experienced, but I think we sometimes forget that “the plays the thing”, or something like that. My D has only sometimes been ‘the star’ or ‘the lead’, and after her initial disappointment at not getting a part she wanted, has enjoyed and greatly grown in her minor roles and ensemble experiences. She also learned a lot about crewing (is that the right word?). She had a great reputation in school for being not only talented, but reliable, helpful, a good role model and an actor with a great work ethic. There have been occasions when that has made a difference to her teachers or directors. I don’t mean this rudely, because I know how it feels to have favorites cast all the time, but to make a fuss almost makes one sound diva-ish.</p>
<p>A few ‘favorites’ who were always leads went on to study MT and at least 2 of them couldn’t take not being big fish anymore… their ponds had gotten a LOT larger! They are not performing now; both finished without a degree in MT. Sometimes the directors do those favorites a disservice…</p>
<p>I do some community theater and get an occasional major role but usually perform in the ensemble or help backstage. I think it is a blast and I love the team effort and know that without what I do, the entire production would be a little less…community! Everyone in the production of a play is important… only some are more visibly so…</p>
<p>I agree 100% with MichaelNKat. I’ve seen the most talented kids passed over so that other kids have a “chance to shine.” I’ve also seen programs where the same kids get cast over and over, and no one else, no matter how talented, has a chance until those kids graduate. I’m assuming that college admissions people know that this kind of thing happens, and that the context all of the applicants come from is wildly varied. If your child has a resume showing commitment to performing/training and has a dynamite audition, I would think that would matter most. And as hard as it is to see our children hurt, developing a thick skin is mandatory in this field.</p>
<p>Ditto to virtually everything that’s been said here so far. Reading through this thread and thinking back with the benefit of hindsight to my long-ago high school days brought up yet another aspect of this question, though, which I hadn’t considered before. </p>
<p>Several of my high school classmates who were “wrongly” cast as leads in shows (cast over far more talented classmates) were inspired by their one big on-stage experience to go on to careers as, for example, amazing music teachers and/or directors and/or music store owners. Without that one opportunity to play a large role in a high school musical, the world would have been denied some great teachers, directors and music stores! The more talented classmates who were “wrongly” passed over went on to pursue their passion for performance with renewed vigor in spite of the high school slight. </p>
<p>So although it hurts to see our talented children occasionally passed over – and although this is most likely NOT the intent of those power-crazed high school directors – perhaps the theatre community is ultimately enhanced by those who get one chance to be a star in spite of sub-par talent.</p>
<p>Heck – maybe all those wrongly-cast high school kids will some day fill the audiences that our serious MT kids later perform for! ;-)</p>
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<p>So true, onstage! And their parents are even less qualified to judge casting decisions. :)</p>
<p>Actually, I did come from a system where I was the drama queen who got all the leads, and you are right, I did hit the wall in college and went a different direction because I could not handle the competition. Very insightful.
I do know the high school system as well is not anywhere near as professional, so perhaps she can get some perspective that because of the circumstances she could not really show her talent or ability for the parts. They read no sides, did not perform with their possible partners, etc. Many kids at the callback did not even get a chance to show their stuff.So, when you have an audition like that, you can’t expect the same results you would at a more professional venue.
What I wonder now though, is how to help her with the ego blow.She will be twisting in the wind all summer. She will have to face kids with far less experience being the divas backstage. But, you are right, in the end, that is going to happen to her if this is what she wants to do.
She was an ensemble part this winter in another play and met lots of kids, and had fun, so she will survive I am sure. She has outside opportunities as well where she may get a bigger part.
Seeing your kid in pain is the hardest thing I face as a mother. I appreciate everyones insight as it is helping me see how to handle this with grace. I think so far we are on the right track,> We will all dust ourselves off and keep our eyes on the prize. There is life beyond high school, even though it doesn’t feel like it at the time.</p>
<p>lucymom, I say this with the utmost respect, and because I think it needs to be said. Judging solely from what you’ve posted, and I acknowledge that that is rarely the whole story, it seems as though both you and your daughter believe that anything less than a lead is somehow not really worth doing, or somehow beneath you. This is a dangerous attitude for any kid who may have aspirations to pursue theatre as a career. </p>
<p>Your comments like stuck in the chorus, it being unfair because your D needs theatre credits for college, how she feels that she’ll be miserable in the show, that she’s going to tough it out, that she will survive, your very negative comments about the director (which I truly hope you have not shared with your D) and about getting revenge, honestly astound me. They portray, fairly or unfairly, a very poor attitude and one that should not be encouraged.</p>
<p>There is absolutely nothing wrong with being in an ensemble role. It’s not something that needs to be overcome or explained. There is a reason for the saying that there are no small parts in a show. Haven’t you ever seen a show where an ensemble member is so captivating that they steal the show? </p>
<p>We have all seen casting decisions with which we disagree but that’s the nature of the beast, much like choosing players for an athletic team, it’s a subjective decision that rests with the individual or individuals who have often/mostly/always donated their time and energies to provide our kids with an extracurricular experience. Life is not always fair, but casting decisions from high school to community theatre to college to professional auditions are often what would be considered unfair. It’s best to learn to go in to the audition well-prepared and do your best, then move on knowing that the decision is something, at that point, over which you have no control. If you stay in this business long enough, you’ll realize that you’ll win some and you’ll lose more, but so will everyone else.</p>
<p>lucymom, I agree with the feedback that many other posters have given you and I do think your D needs to let it go and try to enjoy the school show experience in the ensemble. As a parent, I would not be saying anything to the school on this matter.</p>
<p>That said, the situation you describe does have one element in it that is not the simple issue of not being cast well. You mention that the director seems to not want to cast the kids who are involved in outside theater and may even be the kids who are opting to pursue theater as a major in college. Not that you can do anything about that, but that is too bad, if true. That was not the case at our HS. The auditions were talent based (not even seniority was taken into account as younger kids could be cast as leads) and often the kids who tended to rise to the top in casting, were the kids who were pretty serious about theater and were pursuing it beyond the school show…whether it was some training or outside productions. Of course, there were also kids who got lead parts and their only involvement in theater was the school shows and they were not going to do theater in college. My own kid was cast well in high school, and she was involved in theater (and training) outside the high school setting and this was of no issue. But I have heard of what you are talking about happening elsewhere. What comes to mind is a friend of my D’s who is older than her, who lived in the MidWest and is very talented. My D knew her from theater camp and this other girl played numerous leads at the theater camp. She went onto a top BFA in MT program and shortly after graduating played a lead in a national Equity tour. But I recall this girl saying she was not in any of her high school shows and some of that was due to politics and she was very successful in theater in her region outside of school. So, this dynamic may be in play at some schools. But c’est la vie. The theater world is not one that is based on “fairness.” :D</p>
<p>I think your D should look on the bright side. If she enjoys being part of her school’s productions, and wants to continue being considered for them, she should participate in the ensemble. There is good news for your D because it sounds like there are theater opportunities in your region and so she has other avenues for being in productions. My D did both school and community or regional theater. Both have value. A college is not going to care so much where the credits are on the resume but more that your D has been participating in theater and is dedicated to it. In some ways, being cast in theater outside of school kinda looks “good” compared to only having school production work on the resume. None of this will be a big deal in the scheme of admissions, however. The main thing is that your D participates in theater production work in or out of school or both, and keeps up her singing, acting, and dance training. And if she loves theater, just getting to do it ought to be a positive.</p>
<p>In any case, disappointments in casting will be prevalent throughout her career in this biz. It happens at all levels. But yes, schools can have politics involved. But it is all part of the experience and your D will have to weather it to survive and keep after her goals. There is a lot to gain by being in an ensemble and that is an important message. I have seen many shows where someone in the ensemble really stands out. So, make sure your D doesn’t just participate when she gets a good part. Even very talented kids get cast in ensemble roles. Not every talented kid can get the lead.</p>
<p>Thank you. Believe me, other parents who have had kids in his program have pulled kids. My older daughter always hung in there in spite never being cast by this director in a lead role, and still had fun and got to be a leader.He ended up writing her college recommendations. It is easy to vent on line, and my emotions were pretty raw at the time I started the tread. I am much calmer this morning, and have found the comments useful.
It is true that there are many extremely talented kids who have been at our high school who are getting roles in their colleges who could not get cast by this guy,
A recent example is a kid who auditioned and got into four musical theater programs who did not get parts from him. All were very dedicated to their craft. That he may have a bias against kids who are involved in outside projects is his choice I guess. It seems a pity and does not seem very insightful on his part. High school is a funny time of life, and while on a professional level it may not matter what part you get, at that stage of your life you are more emotional and have fewer coping skills for disappointment. I think that is my objection.He needs to be sensitive that these are kids, and having to live with casting decisions at school are tougher than a rejection from a professional company. Both my kids have handled those within an hour or two.I think someone who is a high school educator should realize that while he may be trying to teach kids a lesson about the brutal world of casting on a professional level, it is harder on them when it happens at school. These are supposed to be trusted adults in their life, and they can feel betrayed. On paper I know what you all are saying is correct, these are life lessons etc, but these are kids!
I know at the end of the day all of your comments are correct, and I appreciate the slap upside the head…</p>
<p>takeitallin…I could relate a bit to your post because I have seen various high school teachers, directors, or coaches who want you to put their activity above all the other activities you participate in and don’t like it if you are involved in other things and such. The following part of your post brings up a memory for me too. You wrote:</p>
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<p>Of the many activities my D2 was involved in, one was the school jazz band as both a pianist and as a vocalist. She was entered in the adjudication for the State Scholarship for Jazz. She was entered as a vocalist (not a separate category from instrumentalists for this state scholarship). This was in early Jan. of her final year of HS (she was a junior who was graduating early). The day of the adjudication (which is an hour from us) was also the same weekend that the original musical revue my D conceived of, wrote, directed, musically directed, choreographed and performed in (something that hadn’t been done at our high school ever and was entirely student run). This also was in the midst of trips to college auditions, not to mention the myriad of other activities she was involved in both in and out of school. The previous year, my D won the State Scholarship for Voice (this was classical) and was Honorable Mention for the State Scholarship for Jazz and so had experienced this before. For the audition for the State Scholarship for Jazz, my D would be singing and we had to pay for professional jazz accompanists (like a trio that the school jazz teacher, himself a professional jazz musician, lined up). As my D had done this before, she knew that one practice with the accompanists was enough and in fact, I think that is all that the fee covered anyway, because they are professionals who should be able to accompany without much rehearsal (my D is now a professional accompanist and this is how that works). But the school jazz teacher called me up and was incensed that my D was not coming in after hours at school to rehearse for her adjudication. She felt well prepared and jazz was NOT NEARLY the only thing she was involved in by a long shot. The other jazz musicians who were trying to win a state scholarship as instrumentalists had music as their main activity but not so for my kid. This teacher was bemoaning her dedication to preparing for the adjudication. </p>
<p>What happened is that my D won the State Scholarship for jazz that year (was the only vocalist to win in fact). This brings honor to her school and the jazz teacher in fact, as the state winners are awarded at the All State Music Festival. Our school is quite strong in jazz in fact. She knew she was well prepared but was juggling a major show that weekend that she was solely in charge of and everything else. </p>
<p>Meanwhile, back at school after she won, the jazz teacher was complaining in jazz band to the students that his own daughter (who was both a jazz vocalist and sax player) had not won the state award and that he felt the judging was unfair. This astounded some of the kids because sitting right there in the room was my D who won the state scholarship for jazz as a vocalist and her friend who won the state scholarship as instrumentalist (trumpet…majorly talented young man who has gone on in this field). I mean it was like an insult to them to hear him say that the judging was not fair. Then, at the end of year music concert, when the music teachers were announcing to the audience who won these major state awards, and there were just a few, he forgot my D. There were people on stage and in the audience who were calling out reminding him that she was the state winner (not us, mind you). My D was off stage in the wings. At the last minute before show time for the concert, he had cut my D’s solo numbers out of the show!</p>
<p>That story is exactly a mirror of this guy, When my kids have done community theater, he has been the only one of their teachers who objected to them missing class. My D2 had a callback during a Saturday rehearsal for a musical theater class, and wanted to leave a half hour early. He had a hissy fit. The director for the neighboring high school let one of his kids go without batting an eye.
But you are all correct. He is the director, life isn’t fair, and its his way or the highway. He is in charge of his department and can run it however he chooses. Can’t change other people, can only change yourself I guess!</p>