<p>I would follow Northstarmom's advice (#3) <em>to the letter</em> if it were my son. I hope you can get your husband to join you in a united front as I think that is essential. Good luck to you!</p>
<p>You have some very hard decisions to make in the next couple of weeks. Sounds as if he has learned over the years that no matter how much he messes up, you will be there to bail him out. He's never really learned the value of responsibility. If he's choosing not to work, then it's time for you to choose to not give him any money. If he doesn't work--let him learn what it's like to be poor. Don't give him any money for anything--including tuition. Does he smoke pot in your home? Next time, call the cops on him. He needs to deal with the consequences of his behavior. Do not enable him. Set the rules. No summer job=No tuition from you. Smoking pot in your home=time for him to move out. You make the rules. You're his parent, not his friend.</p>
<p>Good luck. We're all hoping it works out. Don't think that sending him to college is going to change him. He knows that he has nothing to lose--he knows that know matter what he does wrong, you will bail him out.</p>
<p>I, too, would follow Northstarmom's advice. If he's old enough to go to college there's not much you can do to "change" him. He will make his own changes and decisions but you do...not...have...to...fund...him either. If he were one of my boys I would not "keep him at home" another year hoping something clicks and I would want to give him the opportunity to get a college degree. This is what my husband and I have articulated to all our boys. Not every young person with brains will succeed in college at age 18, but I personally could not give one of mine the chance. You are gambling with the costs you will incur next year, but that, too, is only a decision your family can make. Has the uncle "fired" your son? If not, he should have. What were the repercussions of your son not "showing up for work". For every action there should be a consequence. You know that, you said it but there haven't been any consequences. Maybe have the "uncle" fire your son and you guys tell him to find a job until it's time to leave for college, might be more "motivating" than a fancy camp. Calling the cops might be alittle extreme, but with that acception I do agree with nysmile, also.</p>
<p>ctmom - I was just thinking of you today and wodering how your son was doing. I am glad to hear the video game is no longer ruling his life. But oh so sorry to read your latest update.</p>
<p>I think Northstarmom's ideas are very good. Is it possible for him to get a deferrment for a year form his college? Does he even want to go away to college? If he were mine he would have to really convince me to me spend big bucks for college this year. I would insist on a written contract that spells out exactly what my expectations are for him to stay in college past first semester. And on this issue could your husband just defer to you and your decisions? Sounds like he does not want to be the "heavy," but some one has to.</p>
<p>My husband is in construction, as are lots of our friends, we have friends that are cops, firemen, painters, and lots of other areas of work-they do well.</p>
<p>Is your son more interested in the trades? I saw that he was set to work in that arean but didn't show up, well, if it was my son, there would be no laundry, no food he likes, etc. in the house. </p>
<p>No reason to sit around doing nothing. If he was at least volunteering that would be one thing. </p>
<p>He may not be ready for college, sure, but he can and should be doing something, and its not depression, it just not giving a darn</p>
<p>How does he spend his day? What does he do?</p>
<p>Sounds like the job of a teenage son is to drive his parents crazy- in that you're not alone. Should he go to college this fall? Yes, if he says he wants to. Give him the expectations for keeping you as bill payers and let him show he can do it.</p>
<p>His behavior sounds familiar (not the pot)- sleeping, not doing much, et al- typical for age. I was worried about my son since he never heard his alarm clock at home, he has had 2 very good college years, this summer he still can have trouble with getting up on time. Do not presume his at home habits will carry over, I suspect dependency is easy at home and motivation to do things is lacking. I also bet he resents parents and will not do things at home he will do for himself away from home. I catch glimpses of the person my son is away from home and am pleased, he certainly does not give us the same persona at home.</p>
<p>Give him a chance to surprise you with success away from home. It is frustrating, but be reassured that things are probably not as dire as you think regarding his maturity. Denying him college for his current behavior is not going to mature him whereas letting go of him probably will. Do not hold him back. Consider this- the school admitted him based on his HS record, essays and teacher recommendations- the college and teachers who recommended him must feel he can do the job. I'm sure he is more capable than he is willing to let you know.</p>
<p>His behavior sounds familiar (not the pot)- sleeping, not doing much, et al- typical for age.</p>
<p>This is not the typical behavior of a 17-19 year old. By this age, most have successfully worked at summer jobs. Most earn their own money and pay for their personal expenses such as gas money, date money, clothes money, entertainment money, etc. Most 17-19 year old do not sit around the house doing nothing. Most 17-19 year olds understand their responsibilities and try their best to meet the expectations set for them. This is the time when parents need to step back and let their kids learn how to be independent and competent adults. We need to let them fail and we need to let them deal with the consequence. If he doesn't wake up to the alarm clock, step back, and let him be late to work. The boss will say something to him. If he doesn't want to work, don't support his laziness by giving him money. Step back, let him fall, let him learn, let him discover what it takes to be a man.</p>
<p>"By this age, most have successfully worked at summer jobs. Most earn their own money and pay for their personal expenses such as gas money, date money, clothes money, entertainment money, etc. "</p>
<p>I don't disagree about promoting independance, but is that "most" in any particular area or "class"? This seems at odds with what I've read here, and with some of my personal experience ( with 17 year olds anyway) as well. Is there any data somewhere about this?</p>
<p>Disagree with your "most" assumptions, nysmile. Maybe your kids, but not all others who become highly successful adults. There are differences based on the socioeconomic status, attitudes, et al, of families, whether you like it or not. I remember hearing about a wealthy family's son commenting to his parents how a fellow classmate at Stanford didn't even know how to do his laundry- both had wealth, both did their laundry at college- the one who didn't know how stepped up to the mark and succeeded. Some students have a lot more "maturity" due to the need to grow up faster, this does not mean the others will not do well as college freshmen. I have heard enough comments in real life and on CC to feel that sleeping in, doing nothing and other behaviors are normal for teens during the summer (many of those getting up early to work wish they weren't...). </p>
<p>OP- the point is, don't worry about your son, he is most likely normal- normal consisting of a wide range of maturity and behaviors. The most important issue is - does he want to go to college? He may seem ambivalent about it (read other threads) due to normal anxieties, but unless he definitely does not want to go- let him go. Remember that although he may be legally an adult all teens are still growing, and college can be that incentive to be more adultlike (in some ways- I still remember college years as an interlude of freedoms with few responsibilities). We all set out to create model teenagers/young adults, but over the years most of us discovered that our particular children had strong personalities of their own, not always pliable/moldable as we wished, and so we're stuck with the bad as well as good, just like our parents were. You/we will survive and our children will succeed, the summer does not last forever.</p>
<p>ctmom - </p>
<p>I also agree with the idea of taking a year before entering school. NSM does say it best....he is at risk of blowing it. And if an ultimatum is what it takes to get him into the program you describe, then I'd issue it. Getting him involved in something that requires extreme physical exertion and forces a connection with others, especially in an outdoor setting, can be very therapeutic. He's got to snap out of it and start feeling something....even if it is something that makes him uncomfortable. </p>
<p>I do agree with the tough love approach advocated by some....but I just don't know if sending him off to school so he can possibly flunk out is the best thing right now. Tough love only works if the consequences of his actions are something that would bother him. If he doesn't care about anything, then I don't think you are yet in the place for a tough love lesson. I know I'm not articulating it well....but it seems as if he needs a 'jolt' to get him back to actually caring about what happens to himself, and to you and your family.</p>
<p>I wish you the best ctmom. I know this has been rough.</p>
<p>Most.......sorry for not having statistics for everyone. Let me rephrase---I can tell you that where we live (Eastern Long Island), most of the local kids work. Yes they hate working in the summer but they do it. No, they are not poor. </p>
<p>Set limits and expectations. If attempts aren't made by S to reach them, let him deal with the consequences. Don't enable. Or, you can continue on the path you've set and just wait and see what happens. That's a decision for you to make.</p>
<p>Many more kids in my daughters school are taking a gap year before college - non of them see it as a lesser option. They go through the full admissions procedure and then defer a year. That makes it easier than taking a year off and trying to apply when out of school. There are many Gap year programs some of which are short but involve traveling to another country which might be a good first step to independence. I also second the post grad prep school idea as a possibility - less stress than college but experience being away from home. I absolutely think going to college before you are ready is a mistake. Good Luck!!!</p>
<p>I thought my son would last 3 weeks in college. He has just finished his sophomore year, and is spending the summer catching up to get 60 credits.</p>
<p>DH and I made the decision that it was worth the first semester's tuition to have SOMEONE ELSE (the college) tell him he failed, rather than having Dad and me judging his readiness, and perhaps hearing for life "you didn't believe in me". He got a D in Freshman Comp and had to take it over! Believe it or not, I was thrilled, because previous underachieving was never met with such consequences in HS.</p>
<p>I was willing to pay that first semester's bill knowing that the only payoff may be that he would get his first official, independent "you failed" notification.
Others, particularly those in a tighter financial situation, may come to a different decision.</p>
<p>My oldest was a video gamer, and I sent him off to college with real concerns. Yes, I stalked his facebook and cringed when I also saw the beer pong pictures. His first semester was bad enough that I warned him that if he finished the year with poor grades it meant (1) he wasn't able to do college work; or (2) he wasn't able to do college work at a school of the caliber he was attending and he'd have to transfer to one of 3 choices...each of them with a mediocre reputation, which would not fit with his view of himself (I knew he didn't want to tell his friends he was going to any of them). He either had to face taking a semester off if his grades didn't improve significantly, or he could go through the application process during his 2nd semester to ensure that he'd be in school again in the Fall of the following year.</p>
<p>It was a wake up call, to say the least. He changed majors to something that was actually do-able for him but still interesting (he had started off with a science major that was going to be tough even for the kids who studied), and brought up his grades signficantly. He did apply for transfers, and was relieved that he didn't need to transfer due to bad grades. He ultimately did transfer to a school with a good program in his new major, but by then his record was good enough to support an upward change. As he enters his Senior yr, he's been on deans' list every semester for the last 2-1/2 years and is even looking at graduate school programs. </p>
<p>My point is to hang in there and to give him choices with consequences, even if the choices aren't the ones that you dreamed of for him. I agree with Jaybe's comment that if he fails, it's important for him to face the consequences of that failure so that he understands that he's in control of his adult successes or failures. Stumbling along the way doesn't mean that he won't do well ultimately and someday you'll be back on CC telling some other parent to have faith, it can turn out ok.</p>
<p>Yes agee with neon and others, because we married late and had kids late, many of our friends kids are now grown and starting their own families. This has given my husband and I the opportunity to see what happens to peer groups kids as they move through their teen years and young adult as we are in the early stages of those experiences. What we have witnessed is that the kids eventually do find their paths. Sometimes it wasn't the path the parents envisioned, but ... The most excrutiating son, a top 10 student who managed to flunk out of a top 10 college, parents cut the purse strings, etc. just graduated Magna Cum Laude at a different school (at age 24) after working to pay his way through. We celebrated with those parents! He was their first and was their golden one. I gave their son a gigantic hug and told him how proud I was of him for getting it done. I think it took huge inner strength to turn his boat around. If the parents set a good example, clearly articulate their expectations and follow through on the consequences through the early years...the kids do eventually pull it together, it often seems like it will never, ever happen but keep the faith that you've done the best job you can do in the early years and the lessons will surface.</p>
<p>No good advice for the big picture, but just some thoughts --</p>
<p>As cptofthehouse mentions above, the best-case scenario is that he would "wake up" or snap out of it in college. Hopefully he'd feel the need to go with the flow in and keep up with his peers. What's the academic environment like at his intended college? I think the more you know about it, even the details of his living arrangements, the better. Is the campus far from home?</p>
<p>I think the program in Utah sounds great if you can get him to go. It sounds like his biggest shot at change might be a complete change of environment. Adding that extra step before college, not to mention the outdoors and EXERCISE (a huge plus) might provide some sort of catalyst. Maybe.</p>
<p>Of course I don't know the details, but keeping him home or attending a local CC locally sounds like it might just be an opportunity for things to continue as they are, and misery for you both. It's a big generalization, but at some point I think they reach a stage when home is no longer the place where they are at their best, even when all is well. There are no easy answers. Hang in there, ctmom!</p>
<p>I agree with jaybee that sending him off with your best wishes for his success (if you can afford to gamble on the tuition) will make his failures all his own. You simply tell him, "We believe in you and know you can do exactly what you set out to do." Then, if he flunks out, he can only blame himself. He leaves with support and love and future decisions are his own. No years of listening to him say, "I could have done it but you didn't give me a chance," or "All I needed was to move away from this house for a while," or whatever other accusations he can throw at you. One benefit of this will be that once he is gone for the first semester, you and your husband will get used to a turmoil free environment, thereby increasing the chances that both of you will strive to keep it that way in the future. It is a lot easier to make a kid get his own apartment when you aren't kicking him directly out of his childhood bed. I have a friend who had to make this choice. Her kid made it for two years before needing to come home and take a semester at a CC. However, he is not blaming his parents for anything these days and expects to be returning to his school next semester. In any case, this suggestion is only viable if paying for the first semester (and first year if he makes it) doesn't create a huge financial hardship for you. If you are paying for school, I certainly wouldn't pay for his entertainment expenses. I would give him six weeks of spending money and tell him to find a job if he wants to buy beer (or pot or video games or whatever). Good luck!</p>
<p>Bessie--
You are absolutely right about getting a break from the turmoil. And it was such a habit for me to remind, question, and comment, that my son needed to be away from me to see how he would do on his own. Someone shared this quote with me about that time, and I took it to heart:</p>
<p>"In order to hear their own voice, they need to stop hearing yours"</p>
<p>Some hear it at 18, others at 24. I think my son's started with a whisper (!), but it's growing stronger.</p>
<p>I hope I don't offend anyone here, but imo, since when did a college education become an entitlement? Since when did kids get to treat their parents like garbage and then be rewarded with an expensive college education?To me, the <em>least</em> I would expect from this kid before I would sent him to college is a)that he get a job and keep the job for the remainder of the summer and b) that he quit using pot. Treating his parents like human beings would be nice, too. Only then would I even consider sending him away to school.</p>
<p>My S enjoys video games too and always has. Kids his age (and the op's son) have literally grown up on them. I remember my S playing his first "Sonic" game at age 2 1/2! It has a real draw and fascination for these kids. But I never permitted any online games. In fact, the joke around here is that every time I see him playing a video game I ask "is that a online game?" lol</p>
<p>That's why I think if you can swing the outward bound or whatever thing, it might do a kid who has been wrapped up in the virtual world so deeply for so many years a world of good. </p>
<p>If he turns his nose up at that too, he can live at home and work. If he refuses to work, he can move out and fend for himself. It sounds harsh, but to me this kid sounds like he needs somebody who is willing to really wake him up.</p>
<p>Bravo, jaybee. I think you hit the nail on the head. (And Neo). </p>
<p>The family dynamic has broken down for the OP due to the battles over the internet addiction and son has stopped listening, communicating, cooperating. If the OP withholds college, I don't see that situation improving. </p>
<p>Why pay a fortune for some outdoor summer program that S is deeply resistant to attending? Better to spend it on some pre-college family counseling and the first semester tuition to see how he does. </p>
<p>He may turn himself around and surprise you. Sure, he'll have freedom and be exposed to partying and drinking. But he'll also be exposed to other young people eager to go to class and planning for their futures and talking about careers.... You won't know whether college will have the positive impact you hope for him unless you let him go. </p>
<p>Tell him he has to sign whatever release is necessary for you to have access to his grades. That would be my condition for paying for the first semester. Paying for the rest of college would be contingent on obtaining a reasonable GPA that first year. And even if he falls on his face and flunks out due to not going to class or too much partying, it will have more impact as a wake up call if the consequences of his behavior come from outside the family, rather than being imposed by you his parents.</p>