<p>My DD's friend attends a very strict all-girls Catholic school. The school really prevents the girls from studying AP and honors subjects by requiring the girls meet multiple requirements before the nun in charge will sign off on the necessary school forms. My DD's friend has a 3.9 GPA and is a great student. She wants to go to medical school in the future. The school does not allow freshman to take a science course. For sophomore year they can take either chemistry or chemistry honors. Junior year is biology and senior is physics. Only students who take chemistry honors sophomore and follow the "honors" track can get into potential "AP" science class in later years. </p>
<p>My DD's friend wants to take honors chemistry so that she can eventually get into an AP class in later years. The nun will not sign off on her form because the friend's PLAN test score in science is not the number which the school "requires" for honors chemistry. Friend is pretty upset because she checked the colleges she is interested in and they all want to see AP science classes being taken. The PLAN score number is very arbitrary. In my experience colleges want to see an applicant take AP classes if they are offered at the applicant's h.s. So what can friend do where there are AP classes offered but school has in my opinion a ridculous rule preventing the students from taking the class. Clearly the friend can handle the workload because it is very hard to get A's at this school. </p>
<p>If anyone has any suggestions we would be very appreciative. I know the student well so I want to try and help her. One thing I thought of was for to self-study for the AP exam and try to take it. Can she sign up for it without the school's approval?</p>
<p>Thanks for any help.
P.S. we are transfering our DD out of this school. We quickly learned of their rules preventing the girls from taking subject they are interested in. Our DS attended the boy's school and he took 7 ap classes and all he had to have was a B in the class below and the teacher would signoff on the form.</p>
<p>The school’s policies are outrageous, particularly for a private school. You should have the friend’s parents read Jay Matthews’ articles in the Washington Post on this subject. And you should strongly recommend that DD’s friend transfer as well. Jackuk</p>
<p>Lmao, PLAN Science doesn’t mean anything. I totally failed that section of the PLAN, and I took both AP Physics C Mechanics AND AP Chemistry this year and excelled. Your DD’s school is ridiculous for assuming that one test can measure one’s proficiency in what the ACT determines as “science.”</p>
<p>No science course in freshman year? What kind of school is that? I would not have gone to a school, no matter how good it was, simply based on that fact.
What exactly is the PLAN cutoff for science? If, it was, say, 25, I’d think that was fairly reasonable not to let the kid in the honors course, but I think it’s silly that they have a “track” and you must take honors to get into AP later.</p>
<p>Thank you everyone for your comments. I completely agree the school’s policy is ridiculous that is why I posted on CC for advice. The friend was over at our house for a study session and I asked her why she wasn’t in “honors chemistry” when she told me the reason. It is also more ridiculous due to this fact. My own DD was signed up for honors chemistry eventhough she too didn’t have the “correct” PLAN score because she was a member of the science club and does science related activities outside of school. Of course the nun told my DD that “if I see you have one bit of trouble in the class I am pulling you out of it.” Plus my DD’s GPA is not close to her friends which makes this policy even more ridiculous. </p>
<p>Puggly123; I agree with your point completely which makes this policy even more ridiculous. My now freshman in college DS did horrible on the PLAN and ACT but great on the SAT (a test he prefers and always does well on). If you follow the extrapolation of the PLAN/ACT scoring to the ACT-his SAT score was in the range of 500 points less than his actual SAT score. This friend is bright; extremely hard-working and I just hate seeing her dreams go away due to some ridiculous rule. </p>
<p>Tuftsstudent; garfieldliker and bobtheboy; this school is sexist and for that reason we are moving our daughter to another wonderful; private school (where we will be extremely poor next year paying the tuition :))(DD’s new school has her in honors and ap classes-yeah!!). The boy’s school and girl’s school are not run by the same faculty and administration but are considered “brother-sisiter schools” in the Catholic school tradition. Since our experience was based on the boy’s school where DS attended; we thought same experience would be at girl’s school. We were so wrong!! School has ridiculous rules for taking AP and honors classes so unlike boy’s school where a “b” student could take an AP-the girl’s school makes it difficult for even the “A” student to take an AP class. My only theory which a friend suggested and I believe is true is this-it means that the girls really can only get into “Catholic” colleges because they don’t have high enough GPA’s for the UC schools or other top schools. Having just gone through the college experience with DS I looked at girl’s school college results and that theory proves true. It makes it even more ridiculous because we pay about $14K a year in tuition.!!</p>
<p>For added benefit of how ridiculous this school is especially in science-two weeks ago they had “Career Day.” of the 15 total careers “offered” they included “flight attendant; cosmetologist; interior decorator; hair stylist” and my personal favorite “model…” I was shocked that “home maker” wasn’t one of the offerings. Mind you what is more outrageous about this is that we live in San Diego where there is UCSD and other wonderful science companies and organizations. My DD is in science mentoring organizations and any of those women scientist said they would come and speak. </p>
<p>Bobtheboy-science is not offered freshman year because the students have to take religion and PE. Since there are only 6 blocks at this school-the others are filled with social studies; engligh; math and language. My DD who is transferring to a private school is going to have to take both chemistry and biology her junior year in order to take an AP science her senior year. At least the new school was very willing to make accomodations for her in that area.</p>
<p>Okay so back to the orginal question-can you sit for the AP exam if your school will not let you? I was going to suggest to the friend that she self-studies AP chem and then take the test? is that an option?</p>
<p>What about taking a science class at a community college? Would colleges look at that favorably in place of not taking an AP science or honors level science?</p>
<p>If I was the parent I would go in and demand the school allows her to take honors chemistry and the ap science track. The problem in my DD’s friend situation is that her parents never went to college and are from Vietnam. They are very timid and language is sort of an issue. I am going to try and talk to them and see if I can help them in this regard.</p>
<p>Anyone else have any other suggestion for the problem described in my original op??</p>
<p>JackUK-thank you for the Jay Matthews article suggestion. I will find the links and read them.</p>
<p>Both of my children’s private high schools have policies restricting who takes AP courses. At DD’s school, they were limited to no more than three without permission and they had to be recommended for the class. They could appeal. At my son’s school, I do not know whether there is a policy limiting the number of AP classes a student could take. However, students have to be recommended and some of the requirements are pretty stiff. For example, the top math students take Honors Algebra 2 as freshmen. In order to move to Honors Geometry as a sophomore, you have to have an A in the Honors Algebra 2. This, of course, limits your progress through the math sequence and pretty much guarantees no AP Calculus if you don’t get an A in the honors course freshman year. Students (and their parents) do appeal at that school as well. Once a student is admitted to the higher level class, if they are not doing well, the school has no problem dropping them to the lower level class. </p>
<p>What the selection process does is pretty much guarantee that the kids who are in the class are academically ready AND they usually are not discipline problems. It absolutely bumps up the AP pass rate and scores in general. I have one child who needed the tippy top level courses and benefitted from not having everyone who wanted AP (for the GPA boost) being in the classes. My other child, though certainly capable, has no interest in taking the highest level classes he can take. He is looking for fun and attends school mainly because his friends are there.</p>
<p>I do not have a problem with the nun in the original post. But I will say that if I thought my child should be in the higher classes, I would appeal. I can also say that when my daughter transferred after ninth grade, I was very frank with the powers at the new school and told them that if they didn’t place DD in all of the top classes they offered, she would not attend.</p>
<p>Thanks for your post. The difficulty in the friends situation is that she is an “A” student but the score on the PLAN (taken in October of freshman year) does not allow her to take the higher level classes under the school’s self-imposed rules. </p>
<p>I never thought about that fact that school’s policy may be protection for the AP pass rate. I will look into that on their website. </p>
<p>My son’s school had a rule that you could take one ap sophmore year; two junior year and three senior year. If you took more than that then you had to get permission. Of course the students did not have the GPAs to get into the top students and very few got accepted. In our neighborhood most students went to the private school my DD is transferring to so they all had the GPA’s for the top schools. My son was top 10% in his h.s. yet was rejected from all of his dream schools while all neighborhood friend’s got into them. My son was terribly dissappointed since everyone agreed he was just as smart as neighborhood friends. </p>
<p>I am trying to convince parents to appeal the decision but they are very timid. They have never been to college and really follow what the nuns say. In the meantime DD’s friend is terribly discouraged. </p>
<p>Garfieldliker-how would she go about signing up to take ap exam at other school? When my DS’s school cancelled AP Govt.-my ds taught himself but his h.s. offered the exam for it. He passed it so I know it is possible to self-study for AP exams.</p>
<p>You can look up schools in the area and see if they offer the corresponding AP classes, in which case they will offer the AP exam. Then, you can just pay them the money and order the test.</p>
<p>If the parents are not likely to argue the point, the young woman could plead her case. I think that she could argue that she has good grades and is willing to work hard in the class. She could also say that if she is not successful, she would move to the other class. I am all for giving kids a chance.</p>