<p>I agree with NMR that if asked verbally, that is a very good answer to say she has not ranked the schools and is not yet decided (or even yet visited them all) and would be happy to be admitted at any of them.</p>
<p>What is most important is to articulate why you want to attend their school in very specific terms and reveal your true interest as well that you have explored them in depth. That is the key thing here. What you fill out on the form likely is not what is key to getting in. Also, the audition itself is the main factor. Then, there is academics and all the rest.</p>
<p>soozievt makes an excellent point, as usual! :) Being able to articulate why you want to attend a specific program is very very important. It's not enough to say "You have a great musical theater program and I want to study here." You ideally should know more about the program in depth and why their approach/curriculum/etc suits you. But if someone asks where else you are auditioning, you can simply name a few schools that are ranked approximately in the same group as the school in question and if asked which is your favorite, say something like my daughter did, which is that you would be thrilled to attend any of the programs on your list.</p>
<p>My son was accepted to Ithaca last year shortly after auditioning at the Chicago Unifieds. He was thrown by the question as well, but answered truthfully, ranking Ithaca as #3 on his list. I thought it was ridiculously unfair for the question to be asked in the first place. Talk about putting someone on the spot!</p>
<p>Yes, soozievt, colleges (and private high schools and I think football schools also) have periodically been shown to "meet" to discuss different applicants which is illegal. If that's not what they are doing (and I'm not saying they are, it's just perception) than there are much better ways to determine a potential students interest - such as the application, etc. The truth is, you're asking a 17 or 18 year old person a question that generally has a constantly changing answer. Then there's the parental input (location, financial aid, etc.) and, of course where he/she is accepted. It's a useless question in so many ways and up to the college to sell itself once the student has been accepted.</p>
<p>When visiting and auditioning at one of the schools my daughter decided she absolutely hated it, but she's not stupid, if asked it would be one of her top choices and she could give valid reasons. What has she got to lose - we were already there for the audition. I did cancel her audition at CMU for this weekend because she has decided that the conservatory route is not for her and they were very appreciative to know in advance.</p>
<p>My point is that it's a useless question and gives a bad feeling about the program.</p>
<p>The stopwatch comment was just that she was amazed and flustered by it so she didn't have her best audition there. She's auditioned professionally and never had anyone stop her for going 10 seconds over the time allotment so she couldn't believe that they actually watched the clock and cut her off.</p>
<p>amtc,
I agree that they should not ask this question. I do not believe that the BFA programs compare notes with one another, howver. </p>
<p>My D has auditioned countless times in her life, including professionally and while I do not recall any stopwatches, I believe that Ithaca makes this clear from the get go. As well, an applicant should follow their guidelines to the T and try to keep the material in the allotted time frame. Part of the audition is following directions. I am pretty sure Ithaca explains this ahead of time. </p>
<p>It is a good thing that your D has made some discoveries and decisions as to whether the BFA route is for her or not. It is not for all kids and this has nothing to do with talent. I find that some kids have not thought through the BFA vs. BA decision enough. A BFA is truly only appropriate for a student who is 100% sure. The good news is that your D discovered this now and before she was in a BFA program which is when some kids realize what a BFA is like and that it is not for them. Here's to your D's other BA college options!</p>
<p>I agree that colleges shouldn't ask this question, but some of them definitely do, which is why I started this thread. I am now wishing I had started it sooner. :) </p>
<p>Yes, Ithaca makes its time limits abundantly clear in their audition guidelines. I remember a discussion about Ithaca's short time limit last year when my D was auditioning: one of her friends said that the limit was ridiculous and she had no plans to follow it. I told the girl (though twas none of my beeswax!) that I thought she should pay attention to the guidelines, because the school would surely be timing them and that if you just ignore the guidelines, it's like telling the school that you didn't care enough to do what they asked you to do. Not a great impression to make. </p>
<p>I, too, very much doubt that competing BFA programs meet and talk about candidates. What would be the point?</p>
<p>Not to mention -- when would they possibly have time to get together and discuss applicants? The only feasible time I can think of would be during Unified auditions -- and I agree with NMR, what would be the point? It's not the same as a sports situation, where everyone is trying to get the best quarterback!</p>
<p>My D auditioned for the MusEd program last month and she was asked where she ranked
Ithaca as well. She was prepared for the obvious answer that it was her first choice.
At least that is what she told me she said. How can you be expected to answer otherwise.
Auditions are not a church picnic...it's a jungle out there:)</p>
<p>Some of you have read things I have posted - I hope I have been able earn a bit of trust. I do not often state things in a categorical manner....but I am speaking on this because I know many of the directors of many of the top tier MT programs....and I absolutely know there is no collusion going on. These programs are competing for the same top talent, I've been in on discussion (after the fact of the audition season) about "x" auditioned here and there, and for us as well - and MT program "Y" got him. There is no inkling of getting together and "Drafting" who gets accepted where. The question, when I've asked it was just give a bit of direction to the student, the question, when most people ask is to get an idea about whether the student would accept if offered. Why does that matter? Some schools have scholarships that can only be offered in a certain window of time, most schools are only going accept a small number and want to get the best class they can - that means balance to vocal ranges, have enough talent in singing, acting, and dance, having what they see as a proper dispersion of types, and so on. This all requires having as best an idea as possible as to who might actually arrive at your school the following year. I agree often they go too far with this. in any case, there is no collusion.</p>
<p>Clearly, I am not being clear! I never said there was collusion, I simply said it gives a perception of collusion and that it is a useless question in so many ways.</p>
<p>soozievt - I didn't say my daughter was not pursuing a BFA in MT, I said she was not interested in a conservatory program. I know you know there are excellent BFA programs that are not conservatory - U. Michigan, CCM, Syracuse, Ithaca, etc. It's a philosophical difference that makes little or no difference in the "real world" but makes a very big difference in their college experience.</p>
<p>Finally, to be clear again, the stopwatch comment was only to affirm that my daughter had a less than stellar audition (because she allowed herself to be thrown by the auditors concentration on the stopwatch) not because she did not fill in the "other colleges" question. She had heard about it but didn't believe it since she's never had that experience in 7 years of auditions (including Equity). I'm not "blaming" the school, my daughter should not have allowed that to throw her, she's generally much more professional than that. But it did so she had a mediocre audition and that's why she didn't get accepted. </p>
<p>Hopefully I've clarified my thoughts better now!</p>
<p>Mtdog your points about why they would ask make sense. Although it seems from the responses of who was offered admission it doesn't matter what you said if they wanted you. The only possible value I could see is if Ithaca was deciding between 2 people and used it to decide which of those 2 to offer admission to. But then again if the person listed CMU, CCM, U Mich as less desirable than Ithaca, is their answer really 100% believable to Ithaca? Anyway.....</p>
<p>As to being cut off. My D was at MWTA auditions this past weekend. You are limited to 90 seconds. And they did cut people off at exactly 90 seconds.</p>
<p>HoosierMom, believe it or not, there <em>are</em> students who find Ithaca's program more desirable (for a variety of reasons) than Michigan's or Carnegie Mellon's or CCM's. I know several kids auditioning this year whose very very tippy top favorite program and college was Ithaca, but whom also auditioned at Michigan and CMU and CCM. The students I know who had Ithaca at the top of their lists loved the mix of academics and studio (also available at Michigan but not at CMU and CCM), <em>and</em> the very small, LAC environment in a hip, cool small city. Michigan is an amazing program and school that offers liberal arts, but is admittedly HUGE. </p>
<p>I do agree, however, that the question of "Where else are you auditioning?" pretty much encourages kids to either dissemble or to seem to insult the program at which they are auditioning, if that program is not, indeed, the kid's first choice. That's why I started this thread: to get people thinking about the question and how to handle the answer.</p>
<p>I also agree that the schools ought not ask it. (I want to add her that MT schools are not the only ones who ask it. Last year, my kid auditioned for some straight acting programs and several asked this, too.)</p>
<p>Does anyone remember DrJohn speaking to this issue? I thought he had discussed it but I haven't been able to find the post in a search. Maybe I'm not remembering correctly?</p>
<p>AlwaysAMom, yes, DoctorJohn discussed this at length as this topic comes up every year on this forum. I recall that he talked about gauging interest and seeing if their program fits the student and what they are looking for. I suggested to him then, and it is what I wrote in a post on this thread as well, that I think that can be accomplished without asking where else you are applying. The student should be able to articulate their college selection criteria....ie, BA or BFA and why, some academics or not, and why, size of program, philosophy of program, etc. etc. etc. and then specifically explain why that program fits what they want and why they fit that program. As an interviewer myself for a college, I ask these very things without needing to know where else the student has applied. I want to know what they want in a college and why this college is the one they are interested in attending. If it is their first choice or a top choice, they can volunteer that in the discussion about why they wish to attend. I don't think it is fair to ask them to reveal their other schools or to rate them. It is fair, however, to gauge their interest in attending and to gauge how they selected the school and how well they know it and why they feel it is a good fit.</p>
<p>amtc....I was confused when you said that your D did not want to go the conservatory route. The word "conservatory" has different meanings to different people. There are stand alone conservatories like BOCO. There are BFA programs within a university where the BFA component is like a conservatory but there is also a liberal arts component. Many refer to that as attending a conservtory program. That was my confusion in thinking you were referring to BFA degree programs. I see that your D is not interested in CMU (I think) as that particular conservatory that is within a university has barely any liberal arts (in contrast, for example, to the conservtory programs at NYU and UMich). </p>
<p>I truly believe that the BFA programs do not consult with one an other about the pool of candidates during the admissions process. </p>
<p>The issue with the stopwatch is that Ithaca makes this known upfront. I knew about it before my kid auditioned there. They keep strictly to the one minute monlogue limit. I'm sorry your D did not know about that ahead of time and can understand if it threw her off. Just to remind anyone who is reading this, it is hard to analyze why a school doesn't admit you after an audition because you can have a GREAT audition and still not be admitted due to the very low admit rate. And kids get into one highly regarded program and then not another and so that's the name of this game. I know someone who got into CCM and not Ithaca.</p>
<p>This question sounds like a marketing research question. Perhaps this is one way the schools can gather data about who THEIR competition is, and then they can use these data when they go to their department or budget heads (or however that works in academia) as reasons for why they need to beef up (or eliminate, or otherwise alter) this or that aspect of the program. Something like, "we need to keep up with X school because the kids applying here are also applying to X school." It is perhaps part of their competitive intelligence area of operation.
I don't think the question is meant to challenge the kids -- they are challenged enough with the audition!</p>
<p>That's weird--I'm looking at my clock and it says 11:42 am, but my previous post says 12:37 pm. Did I do something wrong?</p>
<p>mahm, I understand the marketing research. But from my experience with my older daughter who applied to competitive colleges (none of which asked where else she is aplpying), they accomplished the marketing research another way....that is, AFTER April 1, and when D had to send back replies of her intent to enroll or not, some schools asked where else she applied or where she was matriculating. So, that can be accomplished at that juncture for marketing purposes to find out where those who do not accept the offer admission decide to matriculate. </p>
<p>I'm not sure about the clock stamp on your post but right now, post #36 says (for me) that it was posted at 11:27 AM. Maybe it was fixed somehow? I do know that CC is having some problems and I have had difficulty loading the forums or posting the last few days. Not sure if the clock thing is related to that or not. I know they are adding some servers to handle the load. But things are still not working as they should.</p>
<p>I, personally, do not think there is anything wrong with a school asking that question. I do not think they are using the information to discuss with other schools. In fact, I'm sure of it. They just want to get a true picture of the student and his/her goals and plans. Every school wants to choose kids who will be a good fit. They want to select a talented class that (first) will accept the offer if one is given and (second) remain in the program for the long haul. They don't want to spend a lot of time on energy on kids who will ultimately leave. I'm sure it is very tricky. So much goes into the decision process.</p>
<p>tina, I agree with that objective wholeheartedly. I am just saying it can be achieved without asking where else a student has applied. Highly selective universities do not ask this question but they are indeed interested in finding out the things you mention such as the student's goals, college selection criteria, interest in attending their college, and why the student is a good fit and how the student will contribute to their campus. They want to accept students who will truly opt to enroll. They are able to address this objective without asking where else the student has applied or to rate their schools. The issue at hand is how deeply they have explored THEIR school, why SPECIFICALLY they wish to attend, why they are a good FIT, how enthusastic they are about the school and so on. I am in the middle of interviewing candidates for a selective university and writing up reports of these interviews. I addressed these very issues in their interviews but never asked them where else they applied. </p>
<p>I do agree that they are not discussing the students with other schools.</p>