<p>If he’s a freshman, you might consider whether a one semester on, one semester off system might work best (due to scheduling) for math for a year or two. Generally, a semester of college math is considered the same as a year of high school math.</p>
<p>If you can fix it so he has more college classes during the sport off-season, it should be more workable.</p>
<p>For a kid like your son, Kelowna, I don’t see the advantage of AP Stats. Why not skip that, and go immediately to a calculus-based stats course? Seriously, for a mathy person it’s easier to understand the formulas, as one would in a calculus-based course, than to just memorize them, as one would in AP Stats. </p>
<p>I suggest taking the college math class that has the best professor at the most convenient time. There’s no hurry with MV Calculus. He should take whatever looks interesting.</p>
<p>What is calc based stat course?
We are thinking AP stats at the school for the convenience and AP exam benefit.
But I definitely do not want to bore him.</p>
<p>AP Stats is statistics by recipe. You memorize the recipe and then apply it to the problem. This is an example of a college course catalog description of a statistics course similar to AP Stats:</p>
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<p>Mathematical Statistics is about the math behind statistical tests. Here is an example of a two-course sequence studying mathematical statistics. First you study probability:</p>
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<p>and then you study statistics:</p>
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<p>The difference between non-calculus-based statistics and mathematical statistics is like the difference between physics without calculus and physics with calculus. In the no calculus version, you memorize recipes for getting answers. In the calculus based version, you learn what’s going on. People who like math may find learning math recipes annoying.</p>
<p>Do you think it will be more beneficial for him to take calc based stats course at the college instead of AP Stats at the HS?
When do you take AP exam then?
He is trying to get the AP Scholar thing (or whatever it is called) by the end of his junior year.
I know that he is having problems in his current AP Physics B class as they are not allowed to use calc, which is more natural for him at his point.</p>
<p>Mathematical stats probably wouldn’t help him in the AP Scholar “thing”.</p>
<p>He should be decent at doing proofs to take mathematical statistics.</p>
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<p>Yes I do. Why should he bother to take a course aimed at students without his level of mathematical sophistication when he can take a real math course? </p>
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<p>When you feel ready, after reviewing in a review book.</p>
<p>Here’s another recommendation. Go over to the college with your son and have a chat with the head of the math department. Ask their advice.</p>
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<p>I’ll say. In my AP Stat class, we were taught how to do everything on the calculator. Everything was plug and chug - no math whatsoever. I got a 5 on the test, but 30 minutes in I really wanted to just walk out - or pick up my desk and fling it across the room. It’s not even like non-calculus physics. You still need problem solving ability for that, there’s just a limit to what you can solve.</p>
<p>If you’re looking for 3 courses, MV Calc, Linear Algebra and Differential Equations are probably the best to take. From there, it can really vary. Number theory is probably a useful and interesting thing to take. Discrete math may be a useful applied subject (especially for Comp Sci), but it doesn’t seem like a lot of pure math majors take it. Maybe that just depends on the school. Abstract Algebra is a more “pure” subject that may be of interest. I would personally suggest a class in formal (symbolic) logic. It’s a great introduction to how proofs work and how to go about doing them. </p>
<p>It might be helpful to know where you’re to sign up for these classes and what all they offer, unless that’s not entirely decided.</p>
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<p>I’ll say. In my AP Stat class, we were taught how to do everything on the calculator. Everything was plug and chug - no math whatsoever. I got a 5 on the test, but 30 minutes in I really wanted to just walk out - or pick up my desk and fling it across the room. It’s not even like non-calculus physics. You still need problem solving ability for that, there’s just a limit to what you can solve.</p>
<p>If you’re looking for 3 courses, MV Calc, Linear Algebra and Differential Equations are probably the best to take. From there, it can really vary. Number theory is probably a useful and interesting thing to take. Discrete math may be a useful applied subject (especially for Comp Sci), but it doesn’t seem like a lot of pure math majors take it. Maybe that just depends on the school. Abstract Algebra is a more “pure” subject that may be of interest. I would personally suggest a class in formal (symbolic) logic. It’s a great introduction to how proofs work and how to go about doing them. </p>
<p>It might be helpful to know where you’re to sign up for these classes and what all they offer, unless that’s not entirely decided.</p>
<p>Interesting. This is not the experience of my Ss. The stat course was quite challenging and sophisticated. S1 had finished calc BC as a sophomore and found stat to be interesting. Must be taught differently at different HSs.</p>
<p>There’s a free online mathematical stats textbook at:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.dartmouth.edu/~chance/teaching_aids/books_articles/probability_book/amsbook.mac.pdf[/url]”>http://www.dartmouth.edu/~chance/teaching_aids/books_articles/probability_book/amsbook.mac.pdf</a></p>
<p>Check out the section on the Central Limit Theorem.</p>
<p>My son was disappointed not to be able to take AP Stats with the best math teacher in the school. (They covered the entire AB Calc curriculum in Pre-Calc.) I am told he covers the entire AP Stats curriculum by November and then they move on to real Statistics.</p>
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<p>The guy may be a great teacher, but that’s idiotic. If he’s teaching AB Calculus, why is the course not called AB Calculus? What about students who need pre-Calc and who unwittingly took this course? What about students who transfer into the school before this course and are wrongly placed in it? What about students who transfer out of the school and are wrongly labelled as not having had AB Calculus? What about colleges who look at a student’s transcript and wrongly think she hasn’t had calculus because she took Mr. Wrongclass’s class?</p>
<p>Hi All. Thanks for great info and suggestions.
He is about to make a decision this week and it looks like he will decide to take Physics for Scientists and Engineers, which I understand is the equivalent of Physics C. His HS does not offer Physics C at all and after taking Physics B this year DS is really into it.
This course will be at a college that is just by our house, but it is very time consuming - the only thing that really worries me. I believe it is 4 or 5 hours of lecture a week plus a three hour lab. It fits OK with DS’s schedule, which is a big plus. The only other course he would be able to take due to scheduling is Elementary Differential Equations.
Calc 3 and Discrete Math can’t be fit into the schedule.</p>
<p>What do you think? Will it be Ok that he is not pursuing math at this time? He will take AP Stats at the HS, and this Physics course is really math heavy. DS is hoping to take part in Physics Olympiad next year and feels like this class will really give him a boost.
Would it be better to take Diff. Equations?
As a reminder, DS will be a sophomore and done with AP CAlc BC.</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>The Physics class sounds like a great idea, especially since your son is interested in the Physics Olympiad. It will probably be easier for him to fit a college lab science class in his schedule as a sophomore than as a junior or senior. Taking intro physics now will also give him the option of taking additional physics classes later, if the situation comes up again that there is no math class that fits his schedule.</p>
<p>Another thing to keep in the back of your mind is getting college recommendations. Some colleges don’t want a recommendation based on a class taken freshman or sophomore year, even if it’s a college class. So having a good college math class as a junior will be helpful in that regard.</p>
<p>I think he’ll be fine. Hopefully the times for a math course will work out better next year. Can he keep his math skills up in the meantime? Math team or tutoring might keep him sharp, though with luck the physics will have him using calculus too.</p>
<p>Kelowna, great choice! Even though he’s not taking a class labelled “math,” he will be taking a class that involves plenty of mathematical problem-solving. And it’ll be good for his Physics Olympiad too. So, perfect!</p>
<p>I’m sure you and he know that in addition to the eight hours in class, he’ll be spending another ten to fifteen hours (maybe less, but probably not less than eight) hours doing class work. So it’ll be a big time commitment for sure.</p>
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My homeschooled son took Linear Algebra, and said that Calc is not a pre-req, just a gatekeeper. There’s no harm in taking Lin. Alg. immediately after calc 2 / Calc BC. (But now I see other posts that say there are diff flavors of linear algebra…) Speaking as the parent of a math kid, I would do just about anything to keep him IN his sport. The math can wait - he could even (horrors!) go without for a semester.</p>
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Absolutely. My son finished up all pre-calculus math before 9th grade and did no normal math in 9th, took Calc 1 & 2 (equivalent to BC) in 10th, took no normal math in 11th (but did tutor in math-up-to-calc), and took Linear Algebra in 12th. In the summers before 11th grade, he went to heavy math summer camps which taught a buffet of higher math topics. Somewhere in there, he also “took” Discrete Mathematics and Game Theory through Teaching Company (with no homework or class discussions other than with his parents). Even though DiffEQ and Multivar Calc and Statistics were available at his CC, he didn’t take them, and it was good enough for Caltech and Harvey Mudd and Rice.</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>After Calc BC I took Linear Algebra and the semester after that I simultaneously took Multivariable and Differential Equations. </p>
<p>I would suggest taking those classes, they’re a lot of fun. I took Multivariable Calculus concurrently with AP Physics C as well, so doing flux with triple integrals actually helped me in E&M, with flux and Gauss’s Law.</p>
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Cardinal Fang, belatedly responding to your rant. 
While I don’t entirely disagree this teacher did cover the entire pre-calculus curriculum. My son started the year behind because due to scheduling problems he hadn’t been in an honors section of the 10th grade math class the year before, and he had no problem keeping up. All the pre-calc teachers cover some of the AB curriculum in pre-calc - he just got further than most of them. He’s always had by far the highest percentage of kids getting 4s and 5s on the AP exams of any of the school’s math teachers when he teaches AP level courses. Of course it would be nice if the class were labeled as Pre-Calc/AB Calc on the transcript, but they weren’t quite ready for the AB exam by early May - we go to school until the end of June here in NY. Most of the kids in the class are juniors and went on to BC Calc as seniors.</p>