<p>I feel comfortable saying that law school is not an answer to this problem, unless an individual cracks 170+ on LSAT and happens to have 3.6+ GPA. (that is a very high barrier, and like I mentioned, most won’t fall into this category anyway statistically)</p>
<p>Again, I would rather pursue a masters of accounting, or pursue second bachelor’s in accounting, engineering, nursing, or computer science at an affordable in-state institution. That is, at least, far risk-averse strategy with less downward risk and more upshot potential then attending a non-T14 law school.</p>
<p>LazyKid, I think you just repeated what we have already agreed upon (and in fact, had agreed to numerous posts ago): people should be wary about accumulating hefty debt to attending a non-top law school. I have never disputed this point. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>But on this point, I believe we disagree. I would argue that there are plenty of students who can obtain top grades and LSAT’s but, frankly, lack the ability to obtain top jobs right out of undergrad. Many of them went to average colleges where top employers simply don’t recruit. Many of them, perhaps unwisely, chose unmarketable majors. Many of them may be ‘supernerds’ who, frankly, lack the social skills to obtain a top job right after college (but yet will blossom as late-bloomers while in law school). For these people, their choice truly is to either attend a top law school or be stuck in some menial, low-paying job.</p>
<p>That is unfortunate, and I feel for them. That truly sucks. </p>
<p>On the other note, it should be mentioned that just because someone goes to X,Y,Z college, certain white-collar professional job won’t be waiting to be handed out on silver platter. You have to work for it and ask for it. Heck, I even know some Harvard humanities grads who have been unemployed for over a year. </p>
<p>Getting a job is a function of many factors, and one thing I feel is important is your preparation and persistence. Networking, keeping up the GPA, aggressively applying to jobs, taking internships to better your resume, knowing how to sell yourself in interviews, etc. </p>
<p>Especially if an individual is majoring in a non-marketable humanities field, it becomes even more important that the individual makes strong efforts to secure a white-collar professional job.</p>
<p>Where did you get those stats on avg LSATs per school and where is Harvard? Hard to think this is a comprehensive list without them. I know when I was in law school (Duke) Harvard alums were in top positions at many of the best law journals at the top 20 or so law schools. Also, if you look at S.Ct. clerks, many went to Harvard undergrad. Not pining for Harvard, but just wonder about the validity of the stats. I am wondering, by the way because they are fascinating and appreciate you posting them.</p>
<p>Then I return to my suggestion in post #58: instead of paying for a second degree, just learn some IT or software skills on the side. </p>
<p>As a case in point, I know a girl who graduated with a degree in English…but now works as a (lucratively paid) software architect. How? She learned basic Web programming as a college hobby such that she had a basic working portfolio of projects upon graduation, leveraged that to obtain a Web development job and from there aggressively expanded her skillset. Interestingly, she actually knew far more about actual Web development upon graduation than even most CS graduates at her school. {Those graduates knew plenty of CS theory, but if wanted somebody to build a web application for you immediately, she would be a better hire because she had already been doing that.} </p>
<p>Personally, I’m shocked and saddened that more colleges (or even high schools) don’t provide opportunities to easily learn these types of highly marketable trade skills. She learned these skills on her own time, via her own initiative, with no help from her college. </p>
<p>But be that as it may, I would still argue that that is an even safer pathway towards finding a job. No need to pay more tuition for another degree, no need to take time off from work (many of these skills are learnable at night or the weekend). </p>
<p>Here’s another suggestion, especially for those who did well at top colleges (but can’t get into a top law school or find a lucrative job): certify yourself to become a teacher. Teaching is not a terrible profession, for while you’ll never become rich, you have summers off and in many districts have the opportunity for tenure after a few years which renders you effectively unfireable.</p>
<p>Well, while I can’t speak for nursing or accounting, I’ll tell you that plenty of engineering and CS students were unable to maintain decent GPA’s. Indeed, quite a few of them flunked out entirely (and not flunked out of the major, but out of the entire university). Engineering/CS is no joke. </p>
<p>To continue the story of that girl who majored in English who now works as a software architect, she openly admits that she’s glad that she never actually tried to major in CS because, frankly, she doesn’t think she would have passed. She freely declares that she doesn’t understand any of the deep theory that the CS major forces students to learn. Yet the fact is, she’s won numerous awards from her employers and she’s been steadily promoted. </p>
<p>The truth is that you don’t really need to know most of what comprises the CS major in order to succeed as a developer. Yet the major will force you to learn those topics regardless, on pain of flunking out if you don’t.</p>
<p>My son, who was certain until recently about going to law school, is now panicking about that decision because of negative articles, blogs and threads like this that he has recently read. He got a 183 on the LSAT and graduated (Poli Sci) with a 3.95 GPA from Rice, so will likely get into a top 10 school. But he will have to either take out student loans or sign up for a loan forgiveness program. Is it still worth for him to pursue law school or should he forget about it? Of course, he has not figured out what the alternatives are.</p>
<p>Assuming you mean he got a 173 (the top LSAT score is a 180), yes, he will probably have options for law school should he decide to apply. The real question needs to be, “Does he want to be a lawyer?” While it is reasonable, in my opinion, to go to law school even if one does not intend to actively practice law, one must seriously consider whether the expense of law school can be justified given the intended ultimate goal. That being said, choose your law school wisely (really examine employment statistics) and read the fine print on the loan forgiveness programs carefully - each has its own quirks.</p>
<p>As ‘runnersmom’ said, the first thing to do is to decide if he wants to be a lawyer. If his answer is yes, your son will have his pick of the litter of the top schools. His stats make CCN almost a lock, great chances at HS, and Y if his softs are great.</p>
<p>Also, I had similar stats as your son and received substantial merit-based scholarships from the CCN tier. I didn’t wait long enough to see the offers from MVPB as I decided on SLS for a number of personal reasons, but there is always the chance at named full-tuition scholarships given your son’s numbers. Additionally, schools at the top tend to have more generous LRAP programs for PI types and greater availability of market-paying firm jobs to enable loan repayment.</p>
<p>I reject the notion that one should opt out of any particular career field because it is “riskier” than others. The very first reply in this thread tried to convince the OP not to attend law school, when the OP could very well have passions and talents that would make him a successful lawyer. Are there career fields with higher employment prospects than law? Of course. That doesn’t mean any of them would be to the OP’s liking. </p>
<p>I’ve wanted to be a lawyer since the third grade, before I even became aware of the salary stereotypes. In the fall, I’ll be a freshman at UNC-Chapel Hill, and my plan is to double major in English and Philosophy. I can’t even begin to count how many times I’ve been told those majors aren’t marketable, or that they’re useless, or that law school is one big crapshoot. I know where my talents lie, and I know where my interests lie. The fact is, I would have a difficult time pursuing any of the so-called “marketable” or “non-risky” professions, and, even though I know I might eventually succeed with hard work and dedication, I would not be doing something I loved. </p>
<p>No amount of statistics will dissuade someone from pursuing what they love. This thread relies heavily on the assumption that the OP (and most others asking for advice about law school) are only interested in law because of the assumed paycheck. I believe that those who succeed in this profession are those who didn’t pursue it for the money, but rather out of pure passion. And you have no way of knowing through the internet how passionate someone is about law.</p>
<p>MiqueMaus, thanks for sharing your information. Good to know that merit-based scholarships and LRAP programs are a real option. May I ask when you started/finished law school at SLS? I am trying to get a sense of how relevant/timely your information might be for my son who wants to apply next year. Re 'softs", he has a good record of working for non-profits through 4 summers of college, so I hope that is helpful. I am also glad that my son is taking a year to work for the local school district to tutor inner city kids - more glad that the year will help him sort out his priorities. </p>
<p>Unctarheels, cannot disagree at all with your sentiment and passion. However, the quandary a lot of young of people are facing is A) whether to get into a huge debt, and B) how to pay it off after graduation.</p>
<p>arege: I think taking on the loan is worth it if you are 100% sure that law is what you want to do, and you’re 100% positive you will work your butt off in law school. Sure, a very low percentage of law school grads find good positions in the workplace. But someone has to be in that low percentage, and the distribution isn’t random. Can you get into a top law school, and can you be at the top of your class in that law school? You have to be honest with yourself. By the time you’re getting ready to apply to law school, you should already have an idea of your academic strengths and work ethic. If you honestly believe you can be the best of the best in law school, then it’s absolutely worth the debt.</p>