What Will They Learn?

Parent Cafe
1

<p>At last!! A college ranking based on "what really matters: what students will be expected to learn." </p>

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[quote]
Rating Criteria</p>

<p>What Will They Learn? rates each college on whether the institution (or, in many cases, the Arts & Sciences or Liberal Arts divisions) requires seven core subjects: Composition, Literature, Foreign Language, U.S. Government or History, Economics, Mathematics, or Natural or Physical Science. The grade is based on a detailed review of the latest publicly-available online course catalogs.</p>

<p>The fact that a college has requirements called Literature or Mathematics does not necessarily mean that students will actually study those subjects. "Distribution requirements" on most campuses permit students to pick from a wide range of courses that often are narrow or even outside the stated field altogether. To determine whether institutions have a solid core curriculum, we defined success in each of the seven subject areas outlined as follows:</p>

<p>Composition. A college writing class focusing on grammar, style, clarity, and argument. These courses should be taught by instructors trained to evaluate and teach writing. “Across-the-curriculum” and “writing intensive” courses taught in disciplines other than English do not count if they constitute the only component of the writing requirement. Credit is not given for remedial classes, or if students may test out of the requirement via SAT or ACT scores or departmental tests.</p>

<p>Literature. A literature survey course. Narrow, single-author, or esoteric courses do not count for this requirement, but introductions to broad subfields (such as British or Latin American literature) do.</p>

<p>Foreign Language. Competency at the intermediate level, defined as at least three semesters of college-level study in any foreign language, three years of high school work or an appropriate examination score.</p>

<p>U.S. Government or History. A course in either American history or government with enough breadth to give a broad sweep of American history and institutions. Narrow, niche courses do not count for the requirement, nor do courses that only focus on a particular state or region.</p>

<p>Economics. A course covering basic economic principles, preferably an introductory micro- or macroeconomics course taught by faculty from the economics or business departments.</p>

<p>Mathematics. A college-level course in mathematics. Specific topics may vary, but must involve study beyond the level of intermediate algebra. Logic classes may count if they are focused on abstract logic. Computer science courses count if they involve programming or advanced study. Credit is not given for remedial classes, or if students may test out of the requirement via SAT or ACT scores.</p>

<p>Natural or Physical Science. A course in biology, geology, chemistry, physics, or environmental science, preferably with a laboratory component. Overly narrow courses and courses with weak scientific content are not counted.</p>

<p>With these criteria in mind, we assign grades based on how many of these seven subjects students are required to complete. If a core course were one of several options that also included unqualified courses, the institution did not receive credit for that subject; credit is given only for what an institution requires of its students, not what it merely recommends. The grading system is as follows: </p>

<p>A: 6-7 core subjects required
B: 4-5 core subjects required
C: 3 core subjects required
D: 2 core subjects required
F: 0-1 core subjects required

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</p>

<p>Rating</a> Criteria - What Will They Learn?</p>

<p>According to this criteria, our top students should, apparently, be required to spend their time in college (and their parents' money) "re-learning" coursework that they were already taught in their AP/IB classes in high school. And, according to ACTA, most of our schools are failing.</p>

<p>Here is their list of schools with an "A" grade (out of about 700):</p>

<p>Baylor University
CUNY-Brooklyn College
East Tennessee State University
Kennesaw State University
Lamar University
Midwestern State University
St. John's College (MD campus)
St. John's College (NM campus)
Tennessee State University
Texas A&M University - College Station
Texas A&M University - Corpus Christi
Thomas Aquinas College
U.S. Air Force Academy
U.S. Military Academy
University of Arkansas-Fayetteville
University of Dallas</p>

<p>How does your student's school rate? ;)</p>

2

<p>Just because a school doesn’t go by these standards does not mean it does not have a well-rounded curriculum which requires studies in various areas. My school gets a D because our Literature, Foreign Language, History, and Mathematics requirements aren’t “good enough” for the What Will They Learn people.</p>

3

<p>I think most Jesuit schools (Xavier among them) would be ranked high on this list, because they do espouse a liberal arts core for all students.
But individual requirements may vary, i.e. for social science - all business majors take Econ, but nonbusiness majors may complete the SS requirement with Soc, Psych, Politics, ect as well as Econ.
Also level of foreign language competency may vary too.</p>

4

<p>Cool! A perfect record! Every school my son applied to was either not listed (4) or got an F (4). This includes top and near-top schools. In fact, the only Ivy he considered applying to was Yale, and it also got an F.</p>

<p>The rating is based on forcing the child to take appropriate classes. However, the “child” is 18 - 22, and presumably should be able to make reasonable choices by now.</p>

<p>Ivies: Harvard: D, Yale: F, Princeton: C, UPenn: F, Colombia: B, Cornell: C, Dartmouth: C, Brown: F.</p>

<p>Stanford: C
MIT: Not Listed
Caltech: Not Listed</p>

5

<p>This is a ridiculous system.
It is also poorly researched.</p>

<p>They didn’t count my school’s math requirement because it’s possible to test out of it. They didn’t bother to find out that most of the people who test out are science/math/engineering majors who go on to take more math. </p>

<p>It is also possible to test out of our school’s composition requirement, and many more people do that than math. Also many people never take an English class because of it. However, they said that the composition requirement was satisfactory.</p>

<p>They also said we had a foriegn language requirement, which only one college (out of nine) actually has.</p>

<p>There is a literature requirement, but they deemed it able to be satisfied by things that are too narrow.
But more than half of the courses are the exact type of course they specified.</p>

<p>The What Will They Learn people seem to be against choice.</p>

<p>Also, the creator Harry R. Lewis lists himself as a former dean of Harvard…which nothing else I saw seems to back up. He is a computer science professor. </p>

<p>Which apparently qualifies him as an education expert?</p>

6

<p>When going from an F to an A doesn’t actually require the school do anything to improve itself, the grading system is silly.</p>

<p>Most Michigan Engineering majors get a D (only Math and Science from that list), a few get a C (some require Econ also).</p>

7

<p>irish, you would think Jesuit schools would rank high, but I go to Xavier University Ohio and we got a D because our requirements in these areas weren’t “good enough” for the people doing the ranking.</p>

<p>It’s just as bogus as all the other rating systems out there.</p>

8

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<p>Yep. My kids’ Jesuit school received a D because they say they don’t have a history, literature, or foreign language requirement. Well, they do require 12 credits in the humanities area with 6 credits in one concentration. They just happen to give you a choice in how to fulfill it. So that was not good enough for their raters and they considered the school not to have met any of those requirements. Ridiculous.</p>

<p>But at least they are rated higher than Yale :wink: !</p>

9

<p>Yeah, I would rather have my options; I learned US History in high school in an honors level course; because of Xavier I was given the opportunity to take European History, which gave me a different perspective on major events of the world’s history. Why does it HAVE to be US Government/History? We’ve had that shoved down our throats since about fourth grade. Isn’t it important to learn about the rest of the world as well?</p>

<p>And as to not counting our lower level foreign language classes, what if you are just beginning in a different language? I think it’s great to be able to learn multiple languages and have a course designed to make it easier to learn after you’ve taken 3+ years of a different language, considering a lot of languages have so much overlap that the differences between them are more difficult to learn and remember.</p>

10

<p>Schools without a core curriculum are automatically screwed for this website’s criteria, but that doesn’t mean students aren’t getting a great education!</p>

11

<p>Everybody knocks the USNWR rankings, but every time someone else does a ranking it only makes USNWR look all the more reliable.</p>

12

<p>Schools WITH a core curriculum are screwed too. Xavier has a core curriculum, but because we are given freedom of options and not locked into limited options like we were in high school, we are penalized by this website.</p>

13

<p>Like all groups this one has it’s own agenda. If your going to take lists like this seriously I would always recommend you look at the diversity of thought on the board of directors (or lack thereof). It’s not surprising to find the “A” ratings do not include almost any schools that by other criteria would be considered the best educational institutions in the US. Myopic at best…</p>

14

<p>Well, I’m happy my kids’ colleges are both on the A list for something! </p>

<p>Though I’m more worried about them getting jobs after graduation. . .</p>

15

<p>I have seen versions of this list before, and they do not constitute universally accepted widsom on what a college curriculum should include.</p>

<p>For example, one can certainly question whether a course in American history or government is necessarily more valuable than a course with a more international emphasis. Or whether survey courses are really more valuable than more focused courses. Or whether everyone needs an introduction to economics but not to, say, psychology or sociology. Or why environmental science counts as a science course but astronomy does not.</p>

<p>It does not bother me in the least that my kids’ schools would rank low on these criteria.</p>

16

<p>It doesn’t bother me that we have been ranked low given the narrow-minded critera. But why would I go 4 years to college to re-learn what I learned in high school for 4 years prior? I might as well go back to high school and pay way less in that case!</p>

17

<p>One of my kid’s schools got a B, the other an F. I think they both got fine educations.</p>

18

<p>Unsurprisingly, Brown gets an F for having neither core nor distribution requirements. To be fair, not everyone agrees with the Open Curriculum.</p>

19

<p>Why should my child spend time in college taking the same courses that she took in HS?? D’s college gen ed requirements are much broader and, I’m sure, more rigorous than most of the colleges that got “A’s” on this list. Being from TX, I would not consider Lamar or Midwestern State particularly exceptional schools (although D has several friends at Midwestern!)</p>

20

<p>Mine got “n/a” for all seven, and therefore and “F” overall. Hopefully no one finds out before I graduate medical school…</p>