<p>Here is another "cognitive science" program to add to the list: </p>
<p>So-called cognitive science may have little to do with actual biology or chemistry, though there are exceptions. Often, schools well known for cognitive science are known because of their graduate programs. One of the very best undergraduate programs that actually emphasizes biochemistry, etc. is the neurobiology program at the University of Washington. One has to apply to it after one is admitted and proved worthy via college performance. They accept about 48 students a year into the major, I believe. Here is the link: <a href="http://protist.biology.washington.edu/neurobiology/index.html%5B/url%5D">http://protist.biology.washington.edu/neurobiology/index.html</a></p>
<p>The University of Chicago does not offer an undergrad major in neuroscience, but does offer a specialization in psychology in neuroscience: <a href="http://psychology.uchicago.edu/academics/undergrad/specialized.shtml%5B/url%5D">http://psychology.uchicago.edu/academics/undergrad/specialized.shtml</a></p>
<p>One can also minor in the Team Science based computational neuroscience. For the truly hard core, one can major in chemistry and minor in computational neuroscience. When combined with the Core requirements this would not be for the faint of heart.</p>
<p><a href="http://collegecatalog.uchicago.edu/archives/catalog0406/other/interopp/cpns.shtml%5B/url%5D">http://collegecatalog.uchicago.edu/archives/catalog0406/other/interopp/cpns.shtml</a>
<a href="http://chronicle.uchicago.edu/980528/neuro.shtml%5B/url%5D">http://chronicle.uchicago.edu/980528/neuro.shtml</a></p>
<p>"So-called cognitive science may have little to do with actual biology or chemistry, though there are exceptions." Unfortunately, from what little I know of the field, that does appear to be the case. I also suspect learning about neurosciences at an undergrad level may not be that valuable. Knowledge in these fields is likely to change so rapidly that even the basics will be outdated. I suspect strong chemistry and molecular biology skills will become very important in the field. There is no reason for an undergrad to become highly specialized.</p>
<p>Just a head's up...I went to graduate school in Neuropsychology with a lowly undergrad English degree. So....I don't think that the undergrad degree determines the grad school course.</p>
<p>However, for a kid who already has career notions in cognition, etc., better planning as an undergrad couldn't possibly hurt, so hats off to your son. :)</p>
<p>
[quote]
I also suspect learning about neurosciences at an undergrad level may not be that valuable. Knowledge in these fields is likely to change so rapidly that even the basics will be outdated. I suspect strong chemistry and molecular biology skills will become very important in the field. There is no reason for an undergrad to become highly specialized.
[/quote]
I think an undergrad neuroscience education can be valuable, as long as the student also seeks out opportunities to take more broad courses in biology or chemistry.</p>
<p>I double-majored in neuroscience (my primary major) and biology, and I felt that was an asset for me in my graduate school applications -- I have a broad biology background, but I am also extremely knowledgeable about neurobiology specifically. Some of my grad school interviewers commented that they were pleased to see me pursuing a program that was broad as well as deep.</p>
<p>I do agree that majoring only in neurobiology without a strong biology background can be a little cart-before-the-horse. :)</p>
<p>And, ahem, I'll second mootmom's recommendation for the Brain and Cognitive Sciences Department at MIT -- it's a very well-respected program, of course, but it's also relatively small (about 30 undergrads per year), flexible (students choose whether to take a cog-sci track or a neurosci track), and requires undergraduate research. My experience as an undergrad in the department were great. (And relevant to the OP's question, many students in the department minor in or complete a second major in chemistry.)</p>
<p>Since you were also looking for merit aid, and most of the schools mentioned so far won't have that (exception is several of the ones in yulsie's post #20), I'll suggest Tulane for your consideration. ctymomteacher's S is double-majoring or crafting his own major (I'm not sure which) in some combination of neuroscience and biomedical Engineering (Tulane is ranked #4 nationally in that field). Tulane is known for its generous merit aid, and isn't really too far from your Ohio location.</p>
<p>OP here ...Thanks so much to the many parents who responded to my plea with help on "brain chemistry". Your informed suggestions have provided wonderful direction for college site searches in the upcoming weeks in the area of neuroscience. I particularly appreciated the start in looking at particular schools, especially those we hadn't know much about (Williams, CMU, U of Rochester, and others). I do like this part of the selection process - seeing all the choices and narrowing down to a few for roadtrips!</p>
<p>We did have a familiarity with two of the schools mentioned ...looked like Son #1 was going to Case for sure, but Wash U in St. Louis edged them out in merit aid in the end. Both schools were generous, and both seem like a good fit for Son #3 as well. Ironically, Son 1 signed up for Cognitive Science freshman seminar at WashU this fall - might get a more informed view of the field this way. Seemed on the surface the focus included more language and computer science than #3 desired, but I guess trying to get under the surface is part of the hunt.</p>
<p>This now-little-less-clueless mom thanks you for the help...time for learning more and looking for matches. We'll post again down the road with progress in the search.</p>
<p>Yes. Cognitive Science is usually more Computer Science - more software and less "wetware" as hard-core techies sometimes call people.:)</p>
<p>It seems you have some excellent comments and suggestions. Could any people commenting here expand on the research issues? My understanding is that it matters which undergraduate college you attend if you are interested in research because status matters. I presume that puts colleges like MIT at the top of the list. After that, is it better to aim for graduate school, medical school, or both?</p>
<p>I know researchers who like WashU and Rice because they have programs that will initially admit students to undergrad and medical school. (They may even have a 3+3 program but I'm not sure about that.) Both Wash U and Rice are affiliated with excellent medical programs and pursuing degrees at these colleges might make more accelerated courses, research opportunities, and internships available at the undergraduate level.</p>
<p>A student who wants to go into research should aim for either PhD programs or MD/PhD programs, depending on his or her personal preferences. MD programs alone are less useful preparation for a career in research.</p>
<p>drj4,</p>
<p>Research is a complicated issue. I'm not sure what you're asking in your post - whether the nature of the undergrad institution matters for grad school or what?</p>
<p>Anyway, a few comments. Yes, research experience can be helpful as an undergrad, and has become pretty much the norm for science applicants to grad school, although there are many exceptions. </p>
<p>IMHO, the reputation of the undergrad institution matters much less than the quality of work done by the student whereever he/she goes, and the willingness of faculty to go to bat for the student. Grad school admissions are done on a departmental basis, so connections among faculty become very important. The process can also be much more subjective (more properly, less formulaic) than undergrad or professional admissions. So your absolute best bet is to get to know faculty from classes and, ideally, from a research project as an undergrad. The latter has the added benefit that it weeds out kids who find they really don't like the work all that much. </p>
<p>Ph.D. or MD/Ph.D? Complex question, and depends greatly on (1) what kind of research you plan to do (2) how good your undergrad record is (MD/Ph.D. admissions is notoriously brutal) (3) how wealthy you are if you don't get into an MSTP program (4) how long you want to delay starting a life and so on.</p>
<p>according to the director of the neuroscience lab at Harborview and a prof in med school at UW, Reed college is good prep for the MD/Phd program- "made it easy" </p>
<p>( he is also still fairly young as well- )</p>
<p>NewMassDad,</p>
<p>Thank you for responding. Most of the medical researchers I know are MDs/PhDs and are affiliated with medical schools or the NIH. It always seemed to me that having an MD (along with a Ph.D.) would be helpful and expand one's choices. Also, people may think they want a research career at age 18 or 22 but change their focus later.</p>
<p>DRJ4,</p>
<p>There are real advantages to an MD/PhD from a research funding point of view. NIH seems to be more willing to fund them, and of course they can do research a PhD only cannot do.</p>
<p>The problem from NIH's POV is keeping the MDs at research, which is why they need special programs like the MSTP and favorable funding to keep the docs in the lab and out of the clinic. </p>
<p>So yes, an MD does expand choices, perhaps too much!</p>
<p>I have to admit I'm not a huge fan of MD/PhD programs. </p>
<p>People almost always have to choose either a career in research or a career in medicine. Very few medical scientists can have their cake and eat it too -- the postdoc with whom I work at the lab is an MD/PhD, and he only gets into the clinic for half a day per week. There's just not enough time in the day for him to be in the lab less or in the clinic more. My feeling is that if you're going to have to eventually choose one or the other, why not make the choice before spending several years of your life in medical school or graduate school?</p>
<p>I disagree that it's too much to ask a 22-year-old if he or she wants to be in research or not -- if you don't know for sure that you want to do research, you shouldn't be within five miles of a PhD program.</p>
<p>Thanks for the input, Mollie. I'm glad you have such a clear picture of where your life is headed but I'm not sure everyone is that way. For instance, one of the MD Anderson researchers I know radically changed his career course after age 50.</p>
<p>This thread is very informative. My son is also interested in neuroscience, med school and research. He was awarded the Bausch & Lomb award so he visited URoch this spring (and added it to his list). Roch has a neuroscience concentration within the Bio dept (BS in Biological Sciences:Neuroscience). I believe they offer a tuition free 5th yr. I think Wesleyan does too. Wesleyan has a neuroscience major as does Brown & Columbia. Will have to see if RPI offers neuroscience since he just got that award. $ sure would help. He'd qualify for merit $ at our state schools but he wants to leave NJ.</p>
<p>I think neuro undergrad programs vary - some are science based; others are more psychology based. He's getting a ton of mail from schools that don't offer neuroscience coz he filled out the PSAT/SAT? form saying molecular bio. I'm hoping he finds a school with lots of science choices coz I imagine he may change his mind by next yr. Governor's School should expose him to more science choices so we'll see what he says at the end of the summer. </p>
<p>Heeding Andi's advice, I'd like my DS to add lots of safeties & matches so please keep the list of schools coming.</p>
<p>I would caution against investing too much time or mental energy looking for an actual neuroscience program for an undergrad. Some schools make an effort to offer each trendy major as it comes along and drop it when its popularity dies. Others incorporate the same learning into broader categories. </p>
<p>IMHO, it is much more important to find a school that has some depth and variety in its course offerings, and one that helps a kid explore areas the kid may not even know exists. Really now, what 17 year old truly understands the differences among all the subdisciplines in biology? How many even know of the ones that are really hot now, like structural biology? Or computational biology? A good undergrad program will help a kid explore these and many other areas, so they can make a better informed decision for further study. </p>
<p>Heck, they may even discover fields completely outside science. They do exist!</p>
<p>Penn has a major called "Biological Basis of Behavior" which is one of the most popular majors at Penn, especially for pre-meds. It's essentially a mix between Psychology and Biology/Neuroscience. </p>
<p>Here is the website to their program <a href="http://www.psych.upenn.edu/bbb/%5B/url%5D">http://www.psych.upenn.edu/bbb/</a></p>
<p>Here is some info from their "About" section:</p>
<p>The Biological Basis of Behavior Program (BBB) is an interdisciplinary major in which students explore the relationship between behavior (both human and animal) and its organic bases. The program was created in 1978 by then Professor Norman Adler of the Psychology Department. BBB offers courses in virtually all areas of neuroscience ranging from cellular neurobiology to cognitive neuropsychology and integrates these basic interdisciplinary courses with basic science requirements in biology, chemistry and psychology. The Program is successfully integrating interdiciplinary teaching and research in neuroscience through the cooperative interactions of faculty and staff in several departments in the School of Arts and Sciences and the Schools of Medicine and Veterinary Medicine.</p>
<p>One of the strengths of the major is the opportunity for students to pursue individualized research in the laboratories of the standing faculty at Penn. Each year more than fifty students are engaged in supervised research in areas as diverse as molecular neurobiology, chemical neuroanatomy, visual sciences and behavioral ecology.</p>
<p>Williams has a rigorous neuroscience program - that was my stepdaughter's major and she still speaks highly of the program.</p>