What would you do (math)?

Parents Forum
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<p>I'm new here, I hope I'm posting in the right place. </p>

<p>My son is in the 9th grade at a private school that only goes up to 10th. He is currently taking pre-calculus through an online course because, as noted above, his school doesn't go past the 10th grade and pre-calculus is usually offered in the 11th grade here. He has taken other math courses online (ex. AoPS) and while he did well with them, he really would like to take calculus in a class with an actual math teacher. I'm leaning toward having him take Calculus at the university this summer (for credit or audit still undecided). His other possible option would be to enroll in the public school and take it over the summer with other high schoolers. I'm leaning toward the college option because I think it would give him a foot in the door to take other classes there if it goes well. If he takes it at the high school in the summer, he will still have to end up at the university next year in the 10th grade because there would be no math courses left for him to take at his present school (or any other high school around here for that matter) . There are no community colleges here and no AP classes available.</p>

<p>Would there be a big difference in taking caculus at the high school level or college level? Any concerns I'm missing? Pros/cons? I don't have any kids in college so I'm new to all of this.</p>

<p>My son is accelerated and he's used to being with older students, so age issues are not really a big concern.</p>

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<p>There has been a discussion on the engineering board about high school and college calculus. The consensus seems to be that college calculus moves MUCH faster than high school. As an engineering major, I took AP calculus in high school, and then repeated it in college to make sure I really “got it.” You know your son best - he sounds incredibly bright, so he would probably do fine. Could he start taking it for credit, and switch to audit if it proves too challenging to do well?</p>

<p>MTA: My boyfriend in high school was two years younger than I, but only one grade behind me. He was so bright that he took college courses starting as a sophomore, so he would have been the age of most freshmen. He did fine, and went on to get his BS at MIT and his PhD in astrophysics.</p>

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<p>If he’s taking an AoPS math class, why not the AoPS calculus class?</p>

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<p>Does the university calculus course cover one year or one semester of the subject? He might be able to handle one college semester in a summer, but it could also frustrate him. As the other poster has noted, many college calc students have also taken AP Calc at the high school level. This could put him considerably behind. You want to be sure he gets a good grounding in calculus, a class that may be crucial to his major, and you don’t want him to have a spotty record in such a class, which would look really bad on an application.</p>

<p>You may want to investigate CTD, a gifted camp at Northwestern, which offers AP Calc over the summer for kids up to age 17. Of course, the difference in price from your local U is considerable.</p>

<p>What will he do in the future - attend private school through grade 10, then switch to public school? If so, you have to talk to the counslors at the public HS and see what they recommend.</p>

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<p>Are you sure it’s even offered by the public school in the summer? Our district offers a lot of summer courses-- but I don’t think Calculus is offered in the summer. It costs $ to run those programs and the intent is to get kids the credits they need to graduate. No APs or really high-level courses are offered.</p>

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<p>Thank you so much for your quick replies! </p>

<p>As for whether he could take the college course for credit and possibly switch to auditing the course, I’m not sure but that is a good question I will ask.</p>

<p>He does not want to take any more math courses online (this is his third) so any other AoPS courses are out. He’s really interested in being in a classroom setting with all the interaction.</p>

<p>He is very bright and math is a particular strength. Still, I wouldn’t want him in over his head and possibly souring his first university experience. Do universities offer pre-calculus? I will have to check on that. Maybe repeating pre-calc at the university level would be enough of a challenge, and then take Calculus in the fall. (I will check on that semester/year question also.)</p>

<p>As far as residential camps, while I don’t mind him in classes with older students, I wouldn’t want him to dorm with them right now. (He’ll be 13 by the summer). The public school district does offer the class here in the summer, I did check on that.</p>

<p>I’m not sure where he will go after the 10th grade. It is very likely that we will be relocating so I can’t really make any concrete plans past next year.</p>

<p>Thank so much for giving me things to think about and research! I greatly appreciate it - and any more, too!</p>

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<p>This wont get you college credit, but from the standpoint of information, MIT’s open courseware is excellent. The actual lectures have been taped and you can play the video for each class - linear algebra with Dr. Strang,
[MIT</a> OpenCourseWare | Mathematics | 18.06 Linear Algebra, Spring 2005 | Video Lectures](<a href=“http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Mathematics/18-06Spring-2005/VideoLectures/index.htm]MIT”>http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Mathematics/18-06Spring-2005/VideoLectures/index.htm)</p>

<p>physics with Dr. Lewin [MIT</a> OpenCourseWare | Physics | 8.01 Physics I: Classical Mechanics, Fall 1999 | Home](<a href=“http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Physics/8-01Physics-IFall1999/CourseHome/index.htm]MIT”>http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Physics/8-01Physics-IFall1999/CourseHome/index.htm)</p>

<p>electrical engineering, whatever… all free, donations voluntary.</p>

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<p>I don’t see any downside in taking it during the summer at the public school.</p>

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<p>I can understand the desire to take in-person university courses. It would give him a taste of the real thing and could provide him with a lot of confidence and maybe some bragging rights. He might consider it cool if he could get a college ID too - good for discounts or showing to his friends.</p>

<p>It can be an administrative headache for someone under 18 to take a college course. In some states, I’ve heard that it is fairly easy. In others, you need to go through a dual-enrollment route where you get paperwork from your school - usually stating that you are in good standing at your school and maybe a high-school transcript. Some colleges may want to do testing for placement (Community Colleges often do this). I’ve found that it’s harder doing this with students under 16 because schools worry about the maturity issue along with the exposure to some of the things that older students talk about. For girls, there can be the issue of guys over 18 hitting on girls 12, 13, 14, 15, etc. where the girl doesn’t know how to get rid of the guy (daughter had this problem).</p>

<p>Assuming that he wants to continue, get all of the administrative/paperwork requirements in order and then figure out the costs. I priced out a Suffolk calc course once at $2,400 and decided on something that was cheaper but just as good. Make sure that you understand all of the costs unless money is not an issue.</p>

<p>One negative about summer intro courses is that there can be a lot of students taking them because they flunked the courses during the regular school year. This can be a drag during classtime as student show up unprepared and time is wasted going over too many questions on homeworks or test and quiz reviews.</p>

<p>Another potential negative about summer courses is that many are taught in six or twelve weeks instead of the normal fourteen week semester. The classes may meet only once or twice a week instead of three or four times per week. I feel that the learning is better when courses meet four days a week as you get material in 50 minutes and problems to work on in the evening for reinforcement. The shorter class times may be better for teenagers that can’t maintain very long attention spans. I’ve taken many courses that ran for three hours myself when I was older - I don’t know if I would have been able to sit for that amount of time as a teenager.</p>

<p>Make sure that you can deal with the logistics. Can you drive him there and back for every class or can he stay there in a residence? If it’s a residence, then there are additional issues.</p>

<p>Many universities have different calculus courses. Some may have a calculus for social sciences, calculus for business, calculus for science and engineering, honors calculus or calculus with theory. There may be similar variants for precalculus. Make sure that he chooses the particular courses that he really wants.</p>

<p>Many universities finish between early May and maybe the third week in May and start the summer session in May. This may not sync up well with the regular high-school schedule.</p>

<p>That’s all I can think of for now.</p>

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<p>This is something we did with our S, which may be feasible for you depending on your location vis-s-vis the university.
By 10th grade, S needed to take more advanced math courses than were available either at the high school or in evening classes. We arranged for him to be allowed to audit a math class in college. Location was not an issue as the high school was next to the college. The college instructor was willing for him to do all the problems and exams and graded them. At the high school, he was signed up for independent study and the grade he received for the college course was converted to Pass (should have been an A!). The big obstacle that had to be overcome was not and administrative one: the high school recognized he needed to take college courses, and the instructor was willing to let him audit (she’d done the same as a high schooler, she told him). The obstacle was scheduling. The college class met on certain days at fixed times. The high school had a rotating schedule. The GC had to work mightily to make the two mesh somehow.
If the class your S wants to take is calculus, do check what materials it covers over the semester. Is it Calculus 1? How does that compare to the curriculum for AP-Calculus AB or BC? Keep in mind that AP courses are taught over much more time than the typical college semester allows. The pace is slower, the teacher provides a great deal more support. Besides the lectures, the college course may also have a section where help tackling problems is provided along with clarification of the lectures. Would your son be able to attend those?</p>