<p>If students and parents complained to teachers and to deans about this system, it would lead to changes.
While I understand that there are some courses where attendance is crucial, most are not of that type and attendance is rarely taken.</p>
<p>I think it would be very effective for students to miss a class or more in droves in order to register instead of coming to class and pretending to pay attention while in fact trying to register. The profs would get the message and be sure to complain to the administration. After all, they will still be teaching the following semester, and they want students in their classes, don't they.</p>
<p>I'm glad S2 is not facing this problem. He is taking a class whose enrolment had been estimated at 36 (a new class, so the estimate was very conservative). Some 200 students shopped the class. It changed venue and the instructor scrambled to accommodate everyone--177 students in total.</p>
<p>Marite,
The program my child is in at her school has required attendance and it is strictly enforced (these are classes under 17 kids by the way) and absences result in lowered grades (one full grade). She would never be absent to take care of registering online. I realize others may go to schools or programs where absences are not noticed or matter. Her program is not one of them. It is highly participatory and requires one to be there or else. </p>
<p>Merlin,
I am not sure what you mean by dishonest. There was nothing dishonest going on. I signed onto the system for my daughter with her choices in my hand and tried to get them and spoke with her by phone when I couldn't get them and told her what was available and asked her what she wanted me to do and then went back into the system and tried to do it. In fact, I ran into a technological glitch and wasn't sure how to handle it and so I called the registrar's office and said, "My child is in class all day and her registration appointment online was at 10:18 AM and she has asked me to do it online while she cannot be online all day and I ran into X problem and I am not sure how to fix it or do it, can you help me?" The person was very nice and explained how to take care of the glitch and never said a word about my doing it online for my kid! There was no dishonesty involved. I don't ever ever talk to professors or take care of stuff for either of my kids at college. This was more of a logistics issue as she cannot be online during the day which was required in order to register. I didn't think she should have to lose out for classes (already she didn't get all her choices being a soph) because she happens to be in a program that goes 9-6 all day far from any computers. I doubt I was the only person who took care of it online as a parent. I didn't make any decisions whatsoever for my kid. In fact, I insisted she call me on break so I could report to her what I could or could not get and what she wanted me to do instead, as I was unwilling to make any decisions on her behalf. </p>
<p>For me, this was akin to during the college process, my kids took care of all applications, correspondence with professors, coaches, etc. However, since both were gone all day with school and ECs, I was the one who called colleges and lined up tours or information sessions or audition appointments with secretaries. Cell phones, by the way, do not work at our HS's location. I never spoke with anyone or took care of anything for them of significance. These things were secretarial tasks that they were willing to do but had no access to phones or in this registration case, a computer, during the requisite time.</p>
<p>To me, there is a big difference between a parent talking to a professor, coach, administrator, etc. and talking to a secretary to line up a tour or in this case, using the kid's password to sign up online for classes that the student chose herself. The latter things are secretarial and logistical issues and the former are not for parents to meddle.I don't even think parents should do the secretarial stuff necessarily but in these examples, the timing of these calls or online registrations precluded them from being able to do them at all.</p>
<p>
[quote]
By the by, if so many classes fill up, why doesn't the university just schedule more sections of that class? I'm so confused. Why can't education work more like private industry?
[/quote]
I know that they made many adjustments at Tulane last spring (adding sections); at the time I thought it was a special situation due to the whole Katrina thing and lots of guesswork, I imagine, about how many of which class they would need. The school was super-responsive.</p>
<p>Now at JHU, it looks to me like there is quite a bit of adjusting as well, as they highlight newly added sections/changed times etc. in a different color online, and there are lots of those. While S couldn't always get his first choice, I don't think the system is all that bad. </p>
<p>One registration week, he got a great "appointment" time and got all his first choices. Another, he got a really late time and didn't get his preferred schedule, but it wasn't all that bad.</p>
<p>Personally, I like the system where you (a) don't have to stand in those infernal lines* and (b) you can make your own adjustments in real time - looking at spots available in each section - when you don't get your first choice instead of waiting for the white smoke and then a complete schedule.</p>
<p>*anyone else remember being in the last-name-begins-with-M-S line with gadzillions of kids, while the E-L line was empty, but the registration folks wouldn't/couldn't move from one spot at the table to the other? (I went to a small school for undergrad so there was nothing like this, but UC-Berkeley for grad school. Guess I should just be glad it was sunny California as I seem to remember the lines being outdoors). Those were the days ;).</p>
<p>I understand your D's situation; however, it is not the case in the overwhelming majority of college classes, yet many, many colleges have registration systems that entail either a student cutting class to register or having the parent involved. It's okay in most cases to cut classes for one reason or another; it's not okay for colleges to demand perfect attendance then devise a registration system that requires either the student cut classes or a third party be involved.
I am not blaming you and your D hee; her situation is what it is. But colleges cannot, on the one hand, vituperate against overinvolved parents and on the other make it absolutely necessary for parents to be involved. </p>
<p>It would be a good idea if parents wrote to deans complaining about this issue so that future parents do not have to be involved. This thread is really making me rethink the whole idea of helicopter parents! Long may they be around.</p>
<p>Marite, believe me, I agree with you. Just saying not sure what else we could do but work with the system in this case. I could have let her lose out even more and wait until 10 hours later when she'd be in near a computer I guess. But I chose not to do that :D. </p>
<p>Also, while the university itself is big and I doubt many classes require strict attendance, her little program within the large whole does have strict attendance policies. </p>
<p>My D's required classes that are set for her degree program are set when it comes to registering...she WILL get in them as they are required. The classes that I was truly dealing with were the liberal arts courses outside her professional training program, one within her school in the university and one in the larger university. </p>
<p>I don't have the answers here but I realize that not everyone who attends this university goes to classes all day like my child does, or in strict attendance policy classes. Most BA students do not have the hours that my kid has in her BFA program. So, this dilemma may not pertain to as many kids. She is not alone, however, but the majority in the university may not have an issue getting to a computer within a couple of hours of their registration time, but I don't know.</p>
<p>So, I agree with all the issues as you express them. For now, I dealt with the current system and did choose to do this logistical secretarial task on my D's behalf, as her proxy, when she was unable to use a computer all day. I was unwilling, however, to make decisions on her behalf, and thus insisted she called into me on a break to see what I was able to get online and what she wanted me to do next. I don't see it to be THAT different than this semester, while D1 is abroad, she has to have a fellow student act as her proxy, in signing her up for housing as she can't be on campus to do it herself.</p>
<p>I was asking that because at the Community College I work at part time, a granny of one of the students came in to register their child. They had everything organised and even had a bank envelope full of cash to pay for the child's classes. And, to make a long story short, the powers at be did not desire for the granny to take care of the child's business. </p>
<p>It was a clear cut thing because the granny was soo organised. All the kid is taking in the spring, as a second semester Freshman, is part two (if you will) of what they are taking now.</p>
<p>I had to mediate the situation and the granny was doing it on behalf of the child because the child had a bronchitis. So, I just wanted an opinion, because I really do not think that helping out in a nice way is bad. It is just interesting to get opinions.</p>
<p>Another case of bureaucratic inanity. It makes me think of the article I just read that suggested that in case of a flu pandemic, lots of people would feel compelled to go to work (and spread their germs) because they would be afraid of losing their jobs if they stayed home.
The folks at your CC deserve for the kid to come and blow her germs in their face.</p>
<p>Oldest daughter was going to rent me out to all her friends come registration time at her big state Uni!! Registration window is open for small times for each student and then window closes. And of course registration period is during class room hours, that's what makes it interesting for the 27,000+ students all trying to graduate in 4 years.</p>
<p>Daughter was a science major with at least 3 lab classes per semester and OF COURSE you have to register for the corresponding lab section seperately then the lecture. Can be up to 200+ sections for some intro science labs! Which are offered Monday through Sunday, 7 days a week. And as one becomes an upper division student needing only very specific upper division classes offered every other year on either the odd year or even year in either Spring or Fall it is no wonder it can take 5-6 years to graduate. Now those hard to get, hard to find classes have only 1 section capped at 20 students vs. the 700 in chem. And they are always offered when the other hard to get class is being offered.</p>
<p>So she and I labored for hours along with her advisor to plan out all her possible classes for her remaining semesters. She and her advisor made up a list of all possible combinations that could happen and then we tweaked that when the course listing was published for each respective semester. Her advisor said a minimum of 3+ years (as a 2 year transfer) maybe 4. After much crunching and switching and re-arranging not to mention refreshing a computer screen for registration for hours she was done in under 2. Her advisor (also college dean) was beyond surprised. Needless to say d's friends have me sitting starring at the computer screen during THEIR registration times.</p>
<p>And like another poster said "helicopter parent"? Got my wings many years ago and proud of'em!!</p>
<p>DD received her diploma in the mail on my birthday this year, coincidence? I think not!!!</p>
<p>Kat</p>
<p>ps and as a science major many of the classes are sequential resulting in many pre-reqs before moving to the next class, throw in vet school pre-reqs and it was a nightmare</p>
<p>kat, good for you. And I am with you on the science types. My Engineering son had the same lab issues, which is why I sat, PC in lap, 1600 miles from him but right-next-door-in-cyberspace with all the combinations and permutations at the ready! </p>
<p>I guess it is time to be proud of those helicopter wings, when properly earned. :D</p>
<p>Twice my older son ('08) has been somewhere where he was out of contact with a laptop when his "slot" was due to come up for registration - and he's at a state school where classes fill up fast, in an impacted major with lots of specific required courses, and although there are always techniques for getting into those required classes if you fail on your first go-around, it's better if you can get a schedule you can live with during your "slot." Anyway, he went over his class selections and alternatives with me for those two semesters ahead of time (there really weren't many choices to make - you have to have certain classes in a certain order) and when the timer went off I punched in the numbers. I honestly don't see how it's a big deal. As a family we all cover for each other in various ways when there's a scheduling problem.</p>
<p>Marite (and of course any others).....appropo of our conversation in recent days about registering for courses for my youngest college kid online when she cannot be online at her allotted time....</p>
<p>I am thinking of you right now because by sheer coincidence, D2 IM'd me (I'll take what I can get....usually it is a two min. call as she is walking to the next thing and ends abruptly as she arrives) and she is telling me she got her registration "time" for next semester and it is coming up and she is going to mail me all of her choices and all the "if, ands, and buts" depending on which ones have openings, etc. So, she emails all the information. However, the day/time happens to be when I won't be able to get online myself! I'll have just arrived in Italy where we are going to visit D1 who is studying abroad. I won't have computer access upon arrival. D1 will be in class for a few more hours as we arrive and are stying down the street from her apartment. She doesn't have the internet in her apartment, though does have it at school. I explained that to D1. Luckily the day and time she got was the one day she isn't in school for 8 1/2 hours and will have a break about an hour after her "registration time online". So, she'll have to get to a computer (which will be before I can that day), even though it will be one hour after her time and so more classes fill up but it is not like she has to wait until the night (like was the case last time and why I did it online for her). Oh well, it is kinda funny that this came up right after we spoke about it! And I am going to be out of the hemisphere which I NEVER am! So, I can't helicopter this time.....I'd need a Concorde or something!</p>
<p>PS, By coincidence, in a call with my D1 today from Paris, I asked her about her preregistration for next semester since she is currently abroad. She said she will NOT be able to preregister for courses (her school does not do this online system that D2's does). She will have to register upon returning in January. I guess there is no proxy type thing for this. She didn't seem to think it would be a problem unless there was some smallish seminar type course and if that were the case, she'd have to write ahead to the professors and explain her situation. All this came up with both kids today and here we were just talking about that on the forum.</p>
<p>In the American tradition, I see an online start-up here: "helicopter.com" -- will register your kids for their courses and guarantee first priority course schedules for a fee! A great business for a retired empty-nester.</p>
<p>I was reading this thread yesterday when I received a call from my daughter telling me that her time to register is during one of her classes that has a quiz every Friday, meaning that she cannot do it in class or miss class. That just seems silly. Since the school has your current schedule in the computer system you would think they could cross reference the programs to not schedule you during your class times.
I told her I think she should speak to the professor about missing class and taking the quiz with a different class section and hopefully he would be sypathetic and allow that. The thing is - one of the courses she needs is only offered in the spring so she would have to wait a whole year to try again if it is full. And there are only a few sections so it will probably fill up. UGGH. I almost prefer our antiquated "stand in line and beg professors to let you in" method LOL</p>
<p>Oh yeah, forgot to mention that like one of the other posters, my husband and I will be on the road at that time and will not have access to a computer to do it for her. Bad timing all around.</p>
<p>PA Mom, my other D's college doesn't do it this way. The one that has the online "appointment times" is a bigger university and perhaps that is why, I don't know. My other D's school does registration by submitting paperwork, I believe. Even then, it is just "pre-registering" as they have a two week "shopping period" when they may try out any course and then firm up what they want to take at that time....something along those lines. My daughter who attends the bigger university with the online registration, attends a small program in a big place. The core required courses in her program are set and so she automatically will be able to register for those (no sweat) but the rest of her courses where she has a choice (though is still meeting requirements) does involve trying to promptly register at the appointed time because even at THAT time, she is closed out as low man on the totem pole being a soph, of many classes that have filled by those who have earlier appointed times. So, waiting even longer to register past her allotted time means the choices will dwindle. My older D who doesn't have this system, has never not been able to get into a class that she has wanted to take. Even if it filled up, she is able to talk to professors to work it out. </p>
<p>I'll see what D2 manages to get this time. She told me last night her choices and I am encouraging her to have MORE choices at the ready in case. There is one thing I have thought of that she didn't utililze last time but I could suggest it if she gets closed out of five choices or some such....and that is she is one of a very small group of "Scholars". I recall at the April reception (senior year HS) for those selected as Scholars (this was a group of 15 freshmen in a large school), that the Dean explained how he was there for the Scholars and come to him at any time such as if you can't get into a course you want. It sounded like he might pull strings for Scholars. If my D doesn't fare well with course selection, I could refresh her memory of that Dean's comments and suggest she talk to them at Scholars. She has never done that but it is something I do recall that was said.</p>
<p>I really feel for all the students whose parents cannot help out because of their own travel, or other commitments. Which is why I am so aghast at the system devised by colleges that require students to miss classes (even exams!) in order to register or depend on parents. However supportive parents wish to be, they cannot always fly to the rescue, even if they are of the helicopter variety! </p>
<p>Clearly the system is in need of rethinking.</p>
<p>So the solution might be to assign times 7:00 am to 8:00 am or 8:00 pm to Midnight and all day Saturday or Sunday (taking Sabbath observations into account).
That way, the kids would only lose sleep perhaps.</p>
<p>I find this discussion much ado about very little. If a student does some preregistration planning which includes some alternatives, on line registration should take no more than 5-10 minutes. There are very few situations where stepping out of class or logging on in class will make any difference whatsoever. Only the most OCD students or parents will be stressed out to the tune of 30+ posts.</p>
<p>If I was made aware of such a situation before class. would be glad to delay giving a quiz for 10 mins or giving a student additional time to complete a test after class. I cant say I ever recall this happening however.</p>
<p>To those not familiar with the system....You don't HAVE to register at the allotted appointment time online. It is just that you can't get into the system until your personal appointment time, but you can any time after that time/day. Problem is, with waiting to register until later that day, more kids who had later appointment times than your own have now registered and more and more classes are filling up.</p>
<p>Originaloog.....that solution was not a viable one for my D last semester. She attends her studio classes all day 9-6 at a location very far from campus and from her dorm or any computers. She is NOT allowed to miss classes, very strict policy affecting her grades. There are no computers in class, the classes are small, and no computers to use at the site. She could not have gotten to a computer until very late that night, despite her online time to register being 10:18 AM. In fact, one friend who did wait (due to the class schedule in their program), was closed out of the things my D had gotten into when I registered at her allotted time.</p>