What would you tell my daughter?

Parents Forum
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<p>My daughter is truly struggling with her college choice and has asked me to post her dilemma on the parents board because I’ve told her about you knowledgeable and caring folks. (Believe it or not, she doesn’t read CC herself – what is that kid doing with her time?) She has narrowed her options to two great schools: UVA (Echols) and Vanderbilt with a ¾ tuition merit scholarship. We’d be grateful for any and all opinions, impressions, facts, anecdotes, etc.</p>

<p>We’re out of state, so Vanderbilt would actually be less expensive (20K/year) than UVA (30K this year and bound to rise, perhaps substantially). She did the Echols on the Lawn program earlier this week and is excited about the students she met, the Echols benefits (freedom from distribution requirements, priority registration, and special housing freshman year), the traditions, the surrounding town, etc. If it weren’t for the scholarship, her decision would be made.</p>

<p>We visited Vanderbilt the following day (this was an 1800-mile 4-day whirlwind auto tour – I still can’t really unclench my fingers). She liked it very much because what’s not to like? It’s a beautiful campus with top-notch facilities, an extremely cool surrounding area, the most welcoming staff we’ve encountered anywhere, etc. We met with the dean who administers the College Scholars, the honors program she’s been invited to join, and he was caring, attentive, and gave the impression both that the program is a marvelous opportunity (honors seminars each semester with top faculty, etc.) and that the administration is very sensitive to the needs of individual students. By contrast, she didn’t interact individually with any non-students while at UVA, and knows that she’d have to make faculty/staff relationships happen at a large public school.</p>

<p>Academically, UVA has more faculty and offers more depth/breadth of courses in her intended major (classics, with an emphasis on Latin). If she changes her major, it would probably be to history, where both schools seem to have strong departments. </p>

<p>Her primary reservation about Vanderbilt is her continuing perception, even after our 2nd visit, that it’s a rich kids’ school. She knows not everyone there is rich, but feels that those who are set the prevailing tone. She’s sensitive to the issue because our high school’s environment is very materialistic, and she doesn’t want to spend another 4 years as the one without the Abercrombie & Fitch wardrobe and selection of Coach handbags. I pointed out all the kids we saw wearing jeans – she pointed out our tour guide’s Dolce & Gabbana sunglasses and that the jeans hadn’t come from Old Navy. </p>

<p>The cost factor is what she’s struggling most with. We don’t qualify for need-based aid but could afford UVA, though she’d have to take out an unsub Stafford loan there($16K after 4 years). Her dad very much wants her to choose Vanderbilt, probably entirely because of the lower cost. He was upset 4 years ago when our oldest d chose a more expensive school over a full-tuition scholarship at a school she liked, but didn’t love. We had a rough patch for a while, but he eventually got over it (and he’ll do it again). </p>

<p>She knows she could be happy at UVA, but thinks she could be at Vanderbilt, too. It’s unusual for her to have to struggle to make a decision, and, while that may be a good learning experience for her, it’s making us all mighty uncomfortable. </p>

<p>If you've read through this long post, many thanks. I guess her dilemma is one of fit vs. finances, with a little private vs. public thrown in. Your ideas are most welcome! What would you tell her?</p>

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<p>Frazzled:</p>

<p>A couple of reactions.<br>
1. I hope that Evil Robot will pick up on this thread. If not, either PM him or do a search of his messages. He chose Vanderbilt over Yale because Vandy gave him a better financial aid package and he is now very happy there.
2. If there are people like ER and your D at Vandy, it can't be so much of a rich kids' college. And with the difference in costs, think how many Coach bags she could buy, if she were minded to do so!</p>

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<p>Yes, I agree about the stereotyping of "rich kids" colleges here.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
think how many Coach bags she could buy, if she were minded to do so!

[/quote]

Lol! She's minded, all right. She actually bought herself a small Coach wristlet with some of her recent earnings. She's not untouched by the pleasures of material goods - I think it's more that she feels she could never keep up with the Joneses at Vanderbilt, but isn't (yet) at a place where she sees how little the Joneses matter.</p>

<p>I've read ER's posts often - he's one of my favorites posters, and it would be neat for my d to be on the same campus with him and similarly insightful, terrific students. I don't mean to stereotype any school as a a rich kids' college - was more summarizing my d's impressions. Thanks for your thoughts!</p>

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<p>A good friend of my daughter's was probably at the same event, he is going to Vandy on a 3/4 scholarship - he comes from a comfortable, but not rich family. Great kid, jeans courtesy of Old Navy.</p>

<p>There's a lot of money at Vandy, no doubt, but the proportion of the conspicuous consumers is decreasing as admin tries to attract students from other areas of the country. But, a girl is going to feel the lack of the D&Gs a lot more than your average guy. I'm just not sure that UVa is that much different, even though it is a public school - my acquaintance with UVa was from 15 years ago, but there was serious money in residence then. Marite has a good idea, try connecting with ER or other Vandy students posting on the college's thread.</p>

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<p>My daughter liked both UVA and Vanderbilt. She chose to do ed at UVA and will be going there next year. We are also out of state. She felt that she fit better at UVA, and she liked the curriculum options for her intedned major. The total cost is less for us at UVA.</p>

<p>The "rich kid" reputation of Vanderbilt had a little to do with her decision. However, she believes, as I do that you can find your niche at any school.</p>

<p>I have to say I would lean towards Echols, UVA. And I will admit that I am biased, because I truly love UVA. But, the priority registration and freedon from distribution requirements is a great plus. Also, being an Echols scholar is very well regarded. Check out the Virginia board and look at post from Globalist.</p>

<p>That said, I think that your daughter has two great options, and would enjoy both experiences.</p>

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<p>I have a nephew at UVA. He has been happy there until this last semester of his senior year. He studied music and was very active in an acapella group and his fraternity. He made many good friends. His disappointment has been the faculty/administration. He was mugged in a nice downtown area immediately across from campus and was shot in the leg. He found the administration indifferent and unhelpful after that incident. An assistant dean came to the hospital the first night and offered him the use of the counseling services at the university.They provided a van for him to travel to classes, but no one checked on him in his room or called or even emailed him to express concern. He found the admin uncaring. Fortunately, his mother was able to come to campus and help him for a week after the incident, and his fraternity brothers helped him get around as much as they could. I think your daughter might find Vanderbilt faculty and staff more nurturing. I don't know anything about the social scene at Vanderbilt; I bet ER can fill you in.</p>

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<p>Frazzled, I can't comment specifically as I have little personal experience with the schools, but a number of kids I have known have ended up at Vandy because of their generous financial packages. None of these kids fit the rich kids stereotype in the least as they are extremely cost conscious in that some of those kids could have gone elsewhere as their parents were ready to sacrifice to send them whereever they wanted to go. But they visited Vandy, and felt that it was every bit as good as their other choices and so it came down to the money. I think there are "rich" kids there, but you know, you won't them richer than you will at HPY. You should see the names and money of a number of the kids there. The difference is the money name is in that of the school itself at Vandy.</p>

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<p>Went to UVA and have a son there and I am biased in favor of it...I will say though that in general it is not a nurturing environment. Can be but you have to create it on your own.</p>

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<p>"Her primary reservation about Vanderbilt is her continuing perception, even after our 2nd visit, that it’s a rich kids’ school. She knows not everyone there is rich, but feels that those who are set the prevailing tone. She’s sensitive to the issue because our high school’s environment is very materialistic, and she doesn’t want to spend another 4 years as the one without the Abercrombie & Fitch wardrobe and selection of Coach handbags. I pointed out all the kids we saw wearing jeans – she pointed out our tour guide’s Dolce & Gabbana sunglasses and that the jeans hadn’t come from Old Navy"</p>

<p>I'm going to weigh in here on the issue of "rich kids schools." My daughter attends one with a similar reputation and she truly feels that subtle pressure to conform to those "who set the prevailing tone." That is a great way to put it. She knows that she's as financially well off as most of those kids but as she recently told me, she can do cute, preppy, Coach some of the time but it's wearisome to do it day after day. That's not her and she struggles to fit in there (to the point that she is thinking of transferring to the big state U) because she knows, in her heart, that she's not really like most of the kids there.</p>

<p>Now having said that, a lot of her social discomfort is a result of her own doing. She hasn't really gotten herself out into the social fabric of the university and has limited herself to her freshman dorm friends. She participates in a few campus activities but her social skills are still developing and it's not an easy road for her at a place where this stuff matters. If you've got a daughter who is more social and willing to put herself "out there" then it may very well be a moot point.</p>

<p>Just some food for thought. But those are both great choices and congratulations to both of you on her accomplishment!</p>

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<p>What is Coach?</p>

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<p>I am a graduate of Vanderbilt, and my d is currently leaning towards U.VA. </p>

<p>For what it's worth, I did not allow my child to apply to Vandy. For me, there were some wonderful academic oppotunities there. However, it was, and I believe remains, a 'rich kids school.' Not only that, it is a school for rich Southerners. I am speaking as an insider here. That is the world in which I grew up. Highland Park in Dallas, Mountain Brook in B'ham, Memorial Drive in Houston, Belle Meade in N'ville, and selected suburban neighborhoods in Metro Atlanta are very much over-represented in the student body. The Greek scene is ingrown, infantile and anti-academic. After four years at Vandy, I went to graduate school at Yale. What a relief!</p>

<p>This may sound like a harsh opinion, and others would surely disagree with me, but I assume you want to look at all sides of the issue.</p>

<p>Good luck, and congrats on the nice scholarship offer.</p>

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<p>mini,
Coach produces upscale handbags and small leather goods that seem to be very popular now. The initial purchase price is very high, but you could pass them down to your children if fashion were not a consideration.</p>

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<p>Coach = ridiculously expensive line of leather goods. They used to be known for classic lines and wear-forever durability. Now they're primarily all about the big obnoxious "C" logos all over the fabric. </p>

<p>I appreciate all the comments on this thread - thank you so much! I just spoke to a friend this morning , a UVA alum, who wants me to tell my d that the country club set will be much in evidence at UVA, as well. We just didn't notice it that much when we visited Monday.</p>

<p>pattykk, so sorry about your nephew! Hope he's recovering well.</p>

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<p>Oh, thanks. (I really didn't know.) We get such goods when we are in India when we need 'em (we usually know the makers - dealing with dead animals is the lowest caste occupation.) I don't think D1 owns a handbag.</p>

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<p>I am familiar with Vandy.</p>

<p>Yes, there are a lot of kids who are from wealthy families and into the status and name brand name thing. However, there are a whole bunch of kids who have a different set of priorities. Your daughter will have no problem finding like-minded peers.</p>

<p>Having said this, if you want a more unassuming environment, UVA would be a much more safe bet - and would provide an excellent education. My son is also an Echols Scholar and is more than likely to end up there.</p>

<p>The funny thing is that among some kids in Virginia who are contemplating college, UVA is considered to have a lot of arrogant kids from wealthy families!</p>

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<p>I haven't posted yet- I usually just read. I am from the state of Virginia, and UVA is also perceived very much as a rich kid's school here. Many kids don't apply there because they feel they won't fit in. Your description of Vanderbilt students matches exactly the type of many of the students here that attend UVA. I also know a few going who do NOT fit this mold.</p>

<p>I think you can meet many different types at any of these schools. I never had an interest in attending UVA (and either did my child) largely due to their image and our visits there. It's a beautiful, excellent school that some people are not comfortable at.That said, I do believe my daughter, a well rounded student, would have met others like herself and been happy there- as your child will wherever she goes! I think the main thing is to pick the school where she feels the biggest pull.</p>

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<p>Welcome, DSMOM!</p>

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<p>frazzled,
thank-you for the fashion update. My last experience with Coach was <em>decades</em> ago, selling them in the downtown Cleveland Halle's (a well-heeled old school department store, gone the way of most such). My child is a boy. Ahem.</p>

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<p>Read with interest all the comments.....funny how varied the opinions are. In the late 70's UVA a very preppy place....white, Christian, conservative, southern......Izods and khakis only please!</p>

<p>I've been back 3 times this year. Jeans and tee-shirts, Asians and blacks....my son and his buddies are shlumps and fit in. I am sure however that there are pockets of the elite. Nevertheless the perception as a rich kid haven may be based on what was rather than what is.</p>