<p>Frazzled1- Thank you for the thread. We are in the exact same boat as your family--and can only hope that circumstances push us one way or another. D is a Ca. kid from a relatively affluent area and also not "untouched by the pleasures of material goods" (well put!). But she is also a well rounded, grounded, and focused girl--naturally influenced by peers and surroundings. I have your same concerns, and she has the same postive feelings about both schools. Our dilemna is complicated additionally by UNC (how long does it take to see and get another good feel for all 3 schools??) and the draw of great in-state UCs. D is not Echols and her Vandy $$ are not quite as generous--but substantial. We are planning a whirlwind trip for next weekend and hope to attend the last of the Admit Days. All I can say is that I hope something becomes clearer to her then. Our consolation is that it is truly a WIN-WIN. Let's count our blessings. Good luck. I'll keep up with these comments....</p>
<p>Here you go - a thread that actually asks if UVA students are snobbish!!</p>
<p>You can check out the responses.</p>
<p>I believe that you will find Vandy to be pretty much the same way ie a mixed bag. The one thing that I would add is that Vanderbilt is probably a much more Southern school than is UVA.</p>
<p>I posted earlier about some of my own negative impressions of Vandy as a student in the early 80's. I would suggest one way to quantify the issues that might be most pertinent to FRAZZLED1.</p>
<p>You list your location as NY.</p>
<p>On my Freshman hall there was a fair amount of geographic diversity. However, after the first year, kids fom MI, OH, IN and three from South FL all transferred out. I don't think it was a problem with academics. I just don't think they liked the social scene. On the other hand, almost all of the guys from the South, particularly the deep South where I am from, ended up graduating. I know that most colleges publish their retention rate. However, in the case of Vanderbilt, an interesting question might be, "of the kids who do not graduate, what is the percentage of those not from the South?"</p>
<p>If you can get an answer to that question, you might have a better idea whether the non-Southern kids are happy there.</p>
<p>
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If you can get an answer to that question, you might have a better idea whether the non-Southern kids are happy there
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</p>
<p>I don't know if that would provide a meaningful answer. I am sure that one would find more kids who leave from geographical areas other than the South. It would be more revealing to find out, assuming the information is available, what percentage of the student population is from the South today versus when you were there in the early 80s'. In other words, is there a greater degree of diversity?</p>
<p>The other thing to keep in mind is that Nashville is a city that has a fairly significant influx of people from other parts of the US - it is unlike other cities in TN. </p>
<p>The governor of TN is originally from the North East - a Democratic governor in a red state. If I recall correctly, he went to school at Harvard. </p>
<p>We actually worked together in years gone by. Today, he is governing the state - and I am posting on a college forum:)</p>
<p>My daughter graduated from UVA. We are middle class, out of state, & she fit right in. She loved her 4 years there & says they were the best 4 years of her life so far. I was discussing this subject with her the other day because my son's friend wants to go to a school that is much more costly than his second choice where he is being offered a 3/4 tuition scholarship. The parents can afford both, but one would be financially less draining. My daughter's response to me was priceless & made me feel that our money, & her loans, were money well spent. She said that at the end of the day, if you can afford a school, it's not the money - it's if you're where you want to be.</p>
<p>frazzled,</p>
<p>I admit that my experience is dated, but I do have a sense that Vandy kids have a certain sense of entitlement. While in college at Sewanee, I was a kid blessed to go (because of a scholarship) to a summer program at Oxford that involved kids from Sewanee, Rhodes, and Vanderbilt. The kids from Vandy were aloof and distant from the rest of us in a way that left a lasting impression on me. Then a year later, I went to George Peabody College for a Masters degree; Vandy absorbed Peabody the next year, and for $1500 I could have had my degree from Vandy instead of Peabody. It was not just because I didn't have the spare change than I decided not to go that route. Just didn't want to get the degree from Vanderbilt. I might have been stubborn, (yes, it is likely) but I was struck again and again that the students at Vandy seemed cool and aloof. Sounds like perhaps not a lot has changed. My niece went to UVa, though, and she, a very down to earth person, absolutely loved it!</p>
<p>Here are some other things to consider for a possible classics/Latin major. Rhodes (Memphis) has a great classics department and a classics scholarship only available to students who major or minor in Latin or Greek. There aren't many students seeking it. Sewanee has a great classics department. Georgia has a great honors college, and its Foundation Scholarship is so attractive that students accepted at Ivies go to Georgia. I believe there is a strong classics department.</p>
<p>Sorry. I lost track of your D's timeline. I thought she was a junior. However, my daughter had the same reaction to Vandy. While we were there, she was counting designer garments and accessories. She found the fashion frenzy overwhelming. After one visit, she was definitely headed elsewhere. She isn't interested at all; however, if your D is fashion and brand conscious, I'm sure her reaction isn't one of visceral distaste. She should choose the program that fits the best and not the fashion profile.</p>
<p>I only started reading this thread because I was bored....but I am finding it very helpful. We are New Englanders of modest means (unless you ask the FAFSA folks who say we are wealthy). Our daughter is looking at southern schools. While she is not looking at either Vandy or UVA, she has found the same "rich kids" issues at schools she is interested in. She recently scratched Southern Methodist University from her list because "all the kids seem like they got BMWs for their 16th birthdays". She loved Davidson, but the Lili Pulitzer dress on our tour guide was a red flag as was the "brag book" that listed where the current students attended high school (more than 50% come from private high schools, and the publics are from very wealthy towns). She wants a nice climate, but is concerned about the southern "belle" image she perceived at some schools too. This thread is giving us both some more food for thought.</p>
<p>My daughter went to SMU some years ago, and it was the running joke that she referred to fellows she dated by the car they drove, slumming was a Jeep. She had very generous merit money, though R & B fees were ridiculously high. She wound up hating the place, partly because of political attitudes of others, cultural attitudes discussed in core classes, and internal departmental problems. The school was quite accommodating about many things, though, as mid-tier private schools tend to be, much different experience than with state schools.</p>
<p>Since she came from pretty funky high school, we enjoyed seeing the pearls and loafers appear! No blue hair in sight (not her, she had been warned to expect to wake up bald).</p>
<p>My sincere thanks to all who took the time to respond to this thread! I don't want to leave the impression that I consider Vanderbilt primarily a country club school, because it's a wonderful university where students will certainly receive an excellent education. It's committed to undergrad teaching (all faculty teach undergrads), the students we met were there to work hard, there's a tradition of service (our guide told us that Break Away, the spring break service project program, was established 25 years ago at Vandy and is very popular). My d is struggling with the question of where she'd be happiest, and she's not sure she'd fit in if Vanderbilt's campus culture is indeed dominated by a wealthy/privileged cohort. </p>
<p>When she's been unhappy about the clique-ishness of our hs, I've told her that college will be a whole new world, where it won't matter much who's on the lacrosse team versus who's in the band, who drives a Lexus versus who borrows Mom's minivan, because no social group can really dictate standards for everyone in a university environment. (Let's just say that I'd better be right about this.)</p>
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We are in the exact same boat as your family-- ..... she has the same postive feelings about both schools. Our dilemna is complicated additionally by UNC.
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Caseyatbat - cool! It would be fun if our ds chose the same school, because they sound as if they'd be friends. As far as the whirlwind tour goes, I hope you're flying between all 3 cities, because it's a long (10-hour), difficult drive between Nashville and Chapel Hill (not really so bad between C'ville and Nashville). I'd say a few hours at each school leaves a definite impression of the similarities/differences. Please let us know how your trip goes and what your d decides!</p>
<p>I hope you do report back soon. Checks need to be mailed this weeK!
We, too, are seriously contemplating UVA from out of state. With the cost being so incredibly low for Virginians I find it amusing that it is considered the rich kids school. Maybe that's why the student population has the extra cash for the cars, clothes, and Coach bags. ( For those naive, such as myself, a Coach piece for holding business cards can cost in the 50 dollar range!) I hope my daughter can find like minded students at UVAwho have no problem wearing flannel pajamas to an early morning class. Second hand information about Vandy.. lots of dress up affairs that support the Southern Belle image and shirts with the logo: "Vanderbilt...just the sound of it is expensive" or something to that tune.</p>
<p>"a Coach piece for holding business cards can cost in the 50 dollar range!"</p>
<p>Gosh. All the clothes on my body, and including my watch and shoes, all together cost less than 50 bucks. </p>
<p>Funny how that goes. My d., full ride at Smith, is incredibly cheap with money - I have undertaken to actually give her rewards for spending. Last fall, she decided she wanted a peacoat in addition to her winter layer thing, but she couldn't imagine spending more than $30 on anything! (except musical instruments....) I offered her an immediate $10 for a picture of her in any coat she bought that cost more than $30. She finally broke down and bought...but I never got the picture (I don't think she keeps a supply of stamps.)</p>
<p>I think this summer I'm going to wave signed checks in front of her nose for various purchases and trips she decides to take. Only gets the checks if she sends me the receipts. But I'm not too hopeful....</p>
<p>Gosh, I just discovered that their least expensive umbrella is $118, and cheapest tie is $88!</p>
<p>Guess I'll have to do without the shirt and pants...</p>
<p>frazzled - First of all, congratulations to your D for two wonderful acceptances. Clearly she's exceptional. Now as to your original question "What would you tell my daughter?" I'd tell her that the world is a tremendously diverse place and that compared to the international canvas the good old USA east of the Mississipi is a pretty homogeneous place. I mean she could be attending the Sorbonne. (How does one say in french "The Registrar's office says all the classes I want are closed except Elizabethan Literature and The Nuclear Physics of Non-Fissionable Materials?") Yes, Vanderbilt will make D feel out of place at times. Vanderbilt is also filled with wonderful people and a terrific faculty that will be thrilled to have another excellent student in class. It all comes down to what sort of experience D wants to look back on four years from now.</p>
<p>PS, Is anybody else gaining a new appreciation for what international students go through when they elect to attend college in America?</p>
<p>I don't know...We toured Mr. Jefferson's University when my D was admitted and got the decided impression that it was tremendously impressed with itself, and that there were A LOT of sons and daughters of the rich and powerful in attendance. It does indeed seem to cultivate that image within the state. We were duly impressed, but in the end, D did not feel that it was the proper fit. I cannot speak to Vanderbilt, other than to say that when I lived in Memphis, it was spoken of in similarly reverential tones.</p>
<p>Thanks for your honest impressions. At this late hour we are still on the fence. I find it ironic though that we all want diversity at the colleges: racial, geographic. economic .. but we all seem to give the elite economic group such a bad rap.</p>
<p>Pamvanw: Thanks for your good insights. Can you share any thoughts about class sizes at UVA? It appears that even at the higher levels the classes are at 35-50 range. What was your daughter's experience with class size, availability of classes and advising? Can you tell I have really cold feet about sending the deposit? Thanks!</p>
<p>Have a son who is first year there in the college.....class availability can be limited for intro courses...helps to have AP credits. He has not had a problem but some of his buddies have. Advising OK but can be spotty. Class size in general shrinks on down.</p>
<p>He signed up for some of the lesser known profs and had smaller classes...worked out well.</p>
<p>UVA can not match a LAC re: "nurturing". Sometimes to get what you want you need to push a bit.</p>
<p>Hi bluejay, Daughter's smallest class was a lit class of 13 & largest was intro chem which I think was 250. (not that it matters above about 75) The large lectures always have a discussion section led by a TA, & the prof has office hours, which she used. She always found that the professors were thrilled when a student came to office hours. You will have classes that enroll 40 or 50 as an upper level student at UVA, at least in her major which was chemistry. It never bothered her at all. I think class size is very dependent on the department. She was always able to get the classes she wanted & there was never a lack of available classes. Alot of times when you hear kids say they didn't get any of the classes they wanted, what they are saying is that they had to take a section of the class at an undesirable time like 8:00 a.m. If your daughter will be an Echols she will have priority registration (unless they changed that) so she will always get the best selection of classes. She won't have any problems there. As for advising, it all depends on who your advisor is. Her temporary advisor for orientation was extremely helpful & knowledgeable. When they get to school they are given a permenant advisor, & when they declare a major they are given an advisor within the department. She found advising competent. The advising from the Career Services department, which I saw as more important, is fantastic. She loved UVA...As parents my husband & I loved UVA. I can honestly say that we did not have 1 glitch or blunder with the university while she was a student there.</p>