What you wish you would have known / asked / thought of....

College Majors Music Major
1

So, I have a friend IRL that knows how much research we put into college choices and has asked me if there were still “surprises” . Well, yes. Definitely yes, but also the school my child attends is the one we did the least amount of research on.

Here are some things we talked about and I thought that these are great “nitty gritty” details to be comparing at this end stage of decision time. Maybe it will help someone here and maybe some of the other “been there, done that” parents can add to my list…

Look at the entire 4 year plan…

Tuition / cost comparisons:
Make sure you calculate the costs of the schools over 4 years with some guesstimate of annual cost increases, probably based as a percentage of the initial full-boat cost. Now look at the difference. This can be significant…but it’s really still a guess.

Is there an opportunity to audition for additional scholarship year to year?

Academics:
What is the schedule really going to look like over the years. Yes, I mean put pen to paper and figure out what their schedule will look like and how much free time they will or will not have.

How many “Oh my gosh, I have to take another math class” moments to you encounter. LOL

Ask about “hidden requirements”.

Some things my D encountered that were not necessarily clearly disclosed…

~A required keyboard class that was listed as “suggested”.

~She has to attend other students concerts (as in it has to be documented that she is there - checked in and out). A lot of them. (This takes up time.)

~She has to attend a weekly “class” for her instrument. This is not her lesson. (Time)

~She has to attend a certain number of practices for choir with others in her voice part (so this is in addition to choir practices). There is not a set schedule. So, you need to be “flexible”. HA! (Time, time and more time.)

The extra wonderful “opportunities”:
Great! They can participate in multiple ensembles, take a variety of lessons outside of their primary instrument, etc.

How reasonable is it?

Will they actually have time to do this?

Are there credits associated with doing so?

Will their classload allow them the space without overloading their credits (costing you money!!)?

Work / outside opportunities:
Is work necessary? Performing outside of the school bubble desired?
If so, details to consider…
Plentiful or scarce?
Time to do so
Tools to do so (where is she keeping that amp / keyboard / guitar?)
Transportation to do so ( How will she get it to the gig with all that gear?)

So, now go back to that awesome scholarship they received, look at how much time they have, and KNOW what it will take for them to maintain that scholarship. (We saw great variances here. Some schools were as low as a 2.0 and others were as high as a 3.5) Also, we had a pretty good idea of which schools she would easily be an “A” student at and which ones she would either be a “B” student or be working her butt off.

So, my D loves her school even though we didn’t do / know most of this stuff. YMMV.

2

So…when I first read your comment I thought…oh that’s a good topic…with a smile on my face. We didn’t have a lot of surprises in money or curriculum. BUT then I read your comments about “required” additional “STUFF” (including multiple “opportunities”) and my blood started to boil again. It’s the one area of her education that frankly made me mad. I don’t know how much this impacts all musical disciplines and how much was specific to my kid but it was never ending starting Sophomore year.

One of her issues was that she was in theater classes as well that REQUIRED her to attend every theater production and write a paper on it…yay! And she had to do tech for one show that was hundreds of hours…building sets etc. Free labor for the theater dept! Of course she was in ensemble rehearsals too at the music school so getting the two depts to give her some leeway was really, really hard. So when do you work to make money? Well not that semester!

Luckily, her studio teacher waived the requirement to attend recitals (but most of her friends in other studios felt pressure to attend).

Here are a few other thoughts:

Do you get any credit for your ensemble work? You may need to do it…but it is often no credit…or credit once.

Do you get any credit for principal roles or major performances (I don’t know what it would be called in the jazz world)?

In these major “roles”, are there additional expected coachings … maybe twice a week!?! You have to prepare for these. Another class for no credit.

Most likely there is no credit for your many recitals.

How many performances are you expected to attend…to get credit in a class?

I bring up the credit issue bc it adds up to a LOT of work…for no credit. You may think that’s fine, it’s part of the degree and they will learn so much…but it impacts TIME. Time you could be working…but you aren’t…bc you have a FULL academic load and then all the written and unwritten requirements in the evenings and on the weekends. A music degree can be tough due to the time element.

And oh…in grad school they came up with an extra class her last year called “the graduate student seminar” thingamabob for…NO credit…but my D’s presence was expected. She did get out of some of that for work. She just told her teacher she wasn’t attending if scheduled for work…and her teacher kind of said OK. It was her last year…but imagine being a Freshmen in that situation. Very much a surprise!

3

S, in the college jazz world, has plenty of extra forums, seminars, recitals, departmentals, concerts. In fact, there is more. He was recruited to play bass for another jazz class where the horn guys are doing their improv work. S is frequently called upon by other instruments to be bass in their recitals and departmentals. The thing is, he eats it up. Whether he is playing or listening, it is all about the main thing he went to music college for. But, yes, there can be plenty of zero-credit-hour work.

4

The one thing that wasn’t really on our radar about my daughter’s undergrad was that there were not many recital opportunities. At the time, this was concerning. In high school, recital opportunities were abundant, but in college, due to scheduling issues at her very busy conservatory, they were not. Orchestra, yes; chamber, yes, studio recitals, yes. But full recitals for the first three years were in a lottery system and she was not able to give an in-school recital until the required graduation recital senior year. At the time, it seemed like a problem. Looking back (2 years out from MM) it seems insignificant. She is now a full-time freelancer performing chamber, solo, orchestra works, touring and teaching, and I don’t think it made much difference that she didn’t have school recitals during undergrad. In her current life she performs constantly. For example, over the past 2 weeks she had 2 performances in different NY chamber ensembles, including a solo performance, as well as performances in CT with another group, and in TX and LA with a 4th. The recital drought during those brief undergrad years allowed her to focus on technique and musicality.

5

@bridgenail I get pretty worked up about the requirements, credit -vs- non-credits, etc as well. For my D, it’s a bit of a hybrid. Some stuff is for credit, some is not. What is required is a lot of time and when you add in academic requirements, it equals a full load credit-wise. D’s private instructors have excused her from some things so far, but it’s uncomfortable and makes her feel bad. My D was never in theater, but even in HS I noticed the “theater kids” seemed to have such grueling schedules!

@GoForth Some of what you describe, sounds to me like optional creative pursuits. Which is what my D would like to have time for. Though much of that she finds outside of school. She had nearly 50 paid gigs last year along with a part-time job (in music). She definitely eats, sleeps, and breathes music, but needs a lot of flexibility.

All we knew was that she could take a certain number of additional lessons (private instruction on a non primary instrument). So, things like jazz voice, classical guitar, jazz guitar, composition, digital music, recording, etc… and that if she was on par performance wise, she could participate in ensembles, etc related to those things. That sounded great!!! However, these optional things use up credits and despite coming in with plenty of college credit from HS classes, she is maxed out.

To summarize, she has a lot that she has to do (some for credit, some for no credit) and a lot that she still wants to do (for credit). The for credit, pushes her over what is included in normal full-time tuition (up to 19 semester hours). For example, an additional ensemble she’s been invited to join would be another 2 semester hours (about $2000). To me, that was a key missing piece of info or lack of realization on our part. I guess I get it… it is an option not a requirement.
It was one of the things that made the program appealing, and now she may not be able to take advantage of it. She’d like to do it if she can make it fit in her schedule, but the cost may be prohibitive.

I think this is the kind of stuff that would be difficult to know before attending unless you specifically inquire and unless you really lay out their schedule to the best of your ability. Whether or not all the extra stuff is “good” or “bad” will depend on your kid and their other interests / obligations / goals. So, I thought it might be beneficial to some here.

@glassharmonica I love hearing about what others are doing post- grad! I wish we had a thread or something on here for those willing to share! I think it’s very beneficial to see how these kids - many of which will be freelancers, entrepreneurs, etc.- are getting it done!

A lot of people are really stressing about decisions right now. I hope others can join in on the conversation with some additional thoughts. Some of these seemingly small details might be considered by those trying to find something to sway their kid one way or another if they are truly torn between 2 schools.

6

@dbandmom - to better compare apples/oranges, I have to add more qualifiers to S’ story. He came into school with a fair amount of credit - 30 hours after APs and CLEPs and auditions/test-out of some music classes, so that lightened the load and skews his story. He carried 15 credit hours for these first two semesters, but will be dropping down to 14 next fall and then right at or above the minimum 12 hours thereafter.

S has been able to add secondary voice lessons to his load (1 credit hour there). His gigging is currently much less that before college, but he did gig a good amount in high school and is currently working more on his chops, technique, or whatever you work on to bring your skills up, so he is happy with his current balance. Just saying that not much gigging is also crammed into the picture above.

7

Definitely get a look at a typical schedule. 15 hours often means 6 or 7 different classes by the time you factor in studio and lesson - some one-hour credit classes that actually take up more time (ensembles). And that doesn’t include practice time, which could easily be a couple hours per day.

Other things to look for: do you need an accompanist for studio performance or juries? Are there instrument repair facilities on site? Do you need to plan on a summer session or two to fit everything in? What is the likelihood of making the desired ensemble? Is there a piano proficiency requirement?

8

@dbandmom I also never figured on ‘extra’ tuition credits costing extra money, although at my son’s school they are free if you are on Dean’s List the semester before. Another thing - none of my kids ended up doing any study abroad programs although it sure seemed to be a big topic of conversation on tours. They couldn’t afford to miss a particular sequence or class.
p.s I also love hearing post-grad stories!

9

@dbandmom Since I have some distance from the undergrad days, I do think that my D and I did not fully understand what was going to happen when she entered a conservatory (within a university).

My focus: she getting a bachelors degree (we picked a BS for a some flexibility), she’ll be able to explore, spread her wings, maybe find a cool minor, and a boyfriend who is pre-med all while playing frisbee on the quad.

Conservatory: we have four short years to produce a top-notch classical vocalist and we intend to that.

I think the more singular your focus in a MUSIC school, the higher the chance that your expectations will be met. When you come in not fully grasping the intensity needed for music, it’s a bit of a surprise. This may be more of an issue for vocalist that seriously have to consider the question: “Do I put that disney song on my rep list for college? I mean I do sing a mean Belle.”

I feel like my D’s teacher totally knew what it was going to take to get my D from point A to point B (and how she was going to manage me D’s interest in theater)…and we had not a clue. Just being honest! We had researched etc, I just did not understand the intensity…and that the disney days and dabbling were looong gone.

In the end, all those frustrations were necessary. College was like a huge funnel that sucked my kid down to a more and more narrow and intense focus but it spit her out in the end as a vocal artist…and NOW that she has the incredible academic background in music, she can dabble all she wants.

Another surprise: how much my D was transformed by the teacher/school. That’s a good one!

10

@drummergirl - yes the “semester” abroad that was talked about in tours was discouraged by her teacher in order to stay on track. My D did a summer program in Italy since it was important to us.

11

@GoForth If D had done a non-music degree she could probably have been out of college in 3 years. At the end of this semester (soph year) she will have over 100 semester hours. The typical degree is 128-132. If our calculations are correct, she will graduate with at least 180 semester hours.

The AP credits simply didn’t reduce the load very much. I think the rigor of those classes made it easier to transition to college without it being “hard” but I’m not sure they were worth it overall.

Now, factor in all the non credit classes / work these kids do. They are truly rock stars! It burns me up though, because I think most people think “Oh, she’s getting a music degree (eye roll)” Drives me nuts!!!

@bridgenail My D definitely does not have a singular / narrow focus. I’m sure she creates much of her problem herself! lol She is always looking to do “more”…she sees opportunities and wants to take them all but is disappointed when she can’t. So, that’s a good point. (And I love your “my focus” above!)

@drummergirl Oh, the study abroad programs. What a lovely dream. Ha ha!

12

Just in case this applies to your school, @dbandmom mentions having 180 hours upon graduation. At UNT, there is something called excessive hours, where if you are more than 45 hours above what is needed to graduate, they charge you a higher rate for those extra hours. That may be OK, but it is a part of that formula.

Depending on the college, and the college I am most aware of is UNT, the AP classes could be harder than the college class. I can believe that. The classes that S got to skip and get credit for due to AP (again, depending on what each college allows) were two semester of math, one semester of English lit, two semesters of us history, one semester of English composition, two semesters of chemistry. So that is 1 3-hour class per college semester that is removed from the plate. Some of them were easy (for S) in high school, such as AP Calc AB, so why not do that. However, I can see the case for having not done AP US History, and used that extra time for playing music in high school, then taking an easier version in college - except if someone feels that the more rigorous AP class was actually better for the student’s education.

I am not able to sync up with the bad feeling about extra music classes that are zero or one credit hour for lots of work. I think S is happy for all of those, except possibly to the extent that he would have rather worked on some songs of his own choosing than that of the particular ensemble that was added to his week. But S has somewhat of a singular focus - not totally singular such as climbing the ranks of the lab bands, but singular as far as music performance.

13

Ditto on on wanting to see a thread where those with kids out of graduate school can share how the journey is going!

14

I’m trying to think of a good name for the thread…Spiritual Success Stories, How Low Can You Go (for pay), The Best Survival Jobs, Desperate Parents of Musician (& why in the world am I still here)…I’m afraid I may be the only one on it!

My D is doing better than I “feared” (trust me the bar wasn’t real high). I’m in equal parts shocked at her success and shocked at how loosely I define success. But it’s all good!

I did talk with her on Sunday and she said that she had such a great day…an audition, then rehearsals, then serving at pop-up music event (a friend asked her to help) where she could rub shoulders with other performers and then out for drinks with her music friends. In the next 2 weeks, she has 3 out-of-state auditions (pricey) and, maybe, 5 auditions in her city (some theater). It seems to be feast or famine with auditions. And she’s back at her survival job as she performs (after finishing her YA program). She continues to get hired. The pay is from survival rate to a “dinner and drinks with friends” week. But she can pay rent and basics. She placed in a competition so she’s using that as travel money. That worked last year…but I think I’ll be helping her out this coming year as she’s burning through it fast.

She spends her time: working survival job, rehearsals for current production, a lot of time looking for performance work (many different website etc), submitting material and auditioning plus hanging out with friends/boyfriend. Not a bad life…she has no idea how poor she is…but neither does she care right now. If she’s happy…I’m happy!

15

@bridgenail You crack me up!