<p>I am reading the long EC lists and having a hard time thinking, is everybody a president, a valedictorian, a blah blah blah
Is there anybody a kid anymore?</p>
<p>tatiana, there is hope. My S had no interests other than tennis, no comm service, no job, no club memberships, zilch, and he got into all but HYP of the ivies. We were holding our breath but I am reassured that the colleges see thru the phoniness and contrived nature of lengthy fluff.</p>
<p>I hope you are right. Many of my son's friends are "all of a sudden" starting clubs or joing existing clubs their senior year ONLY to put it down on college apps. My son has not joined any new clubs in the last 2 years. he has stayed true to his likes and dislikes. It does make us angry and wonder if the college adcoms see right through those people. I hope so!</p>
<p>The fact is that HYP recognizes that being a "normal Kid" usually means you will are average - which the top colleges do not want, under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES (average for the SAT is 500 on each section too). Average means you arent a leader - why does any private college want to associate its name with obediant servants? State Universities dont care and thats why they dont care as much what kind of person you 'show' yourself to be, but private universities want to associate their name w/ people of immense power and potential, which is what HYP does (how many presidents/senators/world rulers have graduated from there? At least 90% of them) </p>
<p>Of that, it is said that a strong indicator of future sucess is through personality and current accomplishments (while this is not always the case, as in ramaswami's family, but in 'general' it is). Which is why colleges care about that stuff.</p>
<p>But think here - even if its phony, its stil action. The phoniness is just the nonmaterial side. A person could go through their whole life doing the same actions 'phonily' as a person who did them out of the bottom of their heart, but their actions would still be the same - nothing would be different whether they were complete fakers or people that had complete passions (even though usually in life, the people w/ the passions suceed more because the people w/o passion lose interest in those things)</p>
<p>I disagree, the phony person isn't going to continue those actions after they get into college, while the person who truly had passion for their activities will attempt to bring it to their campus</p>
<p>tatiana:</p>
<p>The short answer is that the elite colleges want to see that you did something, and did it well. If that's five things, then great! If it's one, then great! The real issue is doing it well.</p>
<p>So, the kids on here who are founding last-minute clubs and the like are expending a lot of effort for little or no admissions advantage. What I hear from elite college admissions offices is almost always the same litany: Do something you love, and do it well.</p>
<p>rootbeercasesar, interesting point. If you raise money for Darfur, does not matter if it is done out of goodness or to get into college, result is people in Darfur get fed and you are active enough to show you are not too depressed!
I still think authenticity is important and that brings me to tatiana's comment: doing it well. Phoniness in one superb world class endeavour would be more valued than authenticity in 20 small potatoes.</p>
<p>I only hope authenticity in one small endeavour would also be valued since authenticity, by definition, is probably a rare quality today amd hence above average. perhaps, my son's colleges saw that he was willing to go against the current and bet on future success becasue of marching to a different drummer. Or he was above average (with 2350 in one sitting, and several subject 800s and 5s in 10 of 11 APs in the strongest academic subjects incl 2 languages to AP lit level in addition to math/sci/CS etc they saw academic focus. Don't know the answers.</p>
<p>At college visits we often heard that depth rather than breadth was what admissions looked for.</p>
<p>There is a difference between someone who has a long list of ECs for the hell of having a long list of ECs and someone who has a long list of ECs and cares about all of them.</p>
<p>I personally think that putting all your effort into one area for the sole purpose of getting into college is a lot more phony than joining a lot of activities because you're passionate about every one.</p>
<p>It's driven by the perception of families and students that ANY advantage they can take to market themselves -- they MUST do or else they'll be left far behind. Tail wagging the dog unfortunately. The fact is my ECs were a job and some JROTC stuff. No NHS, no quiz bowl, nothing. Just cranked in my classes and had a unique background. I was accepted by all schools I applied, eventually matriculating at one of the HYP colleges. </p>
<p>I recall one adcom saying that a full third of their admitees were just "normal" good kids. From my peers at college, I'd say that was absolutely true.</p>
<p>Well of course, it depends what college. The general average EC's of a HYP/Top 10 USNEWS ranked colleges admittee are 'usually' quite phenomenal</p>
<p>
[quote]
Is there anybody a kid anymore?
[/quote]
No one's a kid anymore... Everyone is just a selfish machine</p>
<p>Everyone has this misconception that colleges expect you to be a leader... I went to a couple of college information sessions and each one stressed that they want leaders from every field (athletics, student gov, and so) but they also all said what school wants 5,000 leaders. I'm not saying it isn't good to have leadership roles but there are always alternatives.</p>
<p>It's unfortunate that kids pursue so many EC's since the majority of the EC's will not be pursued once they get into college. I have only a few, but I consider them all strong considering the time that I have been involved with them (All over 2 years), and my plans to continue them through college.</p>
<p>
[quote]
It's unfortunate that kids pursue so many EC's since the majority of the EC's will not be pursued once they get into college. I have only a few, but I consider them all strong considering the time that I have been involved with them (All over 2 years), and my plans to continue them through college.
[/quote]
This is because relatively few ECs can be continued in college at the same level that they are in high school, because people tend to care less about ECs in college (with the exception of sports). For example, I fully plan on continuing marching band if I end up going to Michigan, but I'm not planning on doing it for most of my other colleges because frankly, some of those bands are a joke. I think it's ridiculous to say blindly that you're going to continue an activity into college without knowing that it will provide the same outlet for your passion.</p>
<p>I liked the example of the student with a job and JROTC. At one of HYP we were told that more than half the kids were un-phenomenal in that, although they had better grades and scores they had not won national competitions etc.</p>
<p>From my son's example, all Ivies bar HYP, just a small CVS job and tennis, one of the adcoms remarked, during open house, that it was refreshing to see a kid doing the small jobs in the community. He said aloud, "When I was a kid, we worked for the local butcher and watched him give credit to an old lady who had little means, etc and that taught us kindness and generosity and how to knit a community together, today these kids are interning with senators to get it onto a resume".</p>
<p>I say, do it from the heart, ask yourself will you do it after college, or if this is not possible, could you do it and leave it out of resume? My S has been volunteering at local shelter for years but left it out of resume because he did not want recognition or advantage out of a small gesture to some unfortunate folks.</p>
<p>HS is a time for character building, let's not get lost in college admissions.</p>