<p>If you're going to grad school, then an elite grad school is more important than elite ug. (My dad doesn't list his ug on his resumes--just where he got his Ph.D. and MBA.) OTOH, if you're going straight into industry (esp. business), elite ug is better (e.g. coming straight out of Georgetown to work in NYC business firm). </p>
<p>So in essence I typed all of that just to agree with everyone here. ;)</p>
<p>Obviously it would be best to go to an elite undergrad AND elite grad school, the_prestige, but that's not what he is asking. If I had to choose one, I would also go with elite grad school. You'll learn most of what you need to know for you career in grad school, and that's where you will be making connections in your field. Definately elite grad school, no matter what the subject.</p>
<p>I created two different threads expressly on which undergrad schools are found most commonly at top Law schools. I think you will find that there is a great, great breadth of schools represented so you can definitely get to an elite Law School from nearly any undergraduate. Having said that, a few schools (esp HYP) have an outsized impact at the most elite Law Schools. In addition, there is a home-field advantage at many top Law School, eg, top Georgetown students would have as good a shot as anyone for admission to Georgetown Law. Here are the two threads that I mentioned:</p>
<p>Posted in College Search & Selection
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=331960%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=331960</a></p>
<p>Posted in the Law Forum
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=331975%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=331975</a></p>
<p>From a job placement standpoint, I think that you will find that elite grad has FAR greater impact than elite undergrad.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Obviously it would be best to go to an elite undergrad AND elite grad school, the_prestige, but that's not what he is asking. If I had to choose one, I would also go with elite grad school. You'll learn most of what you need to know for you career in grad school, and that's where you will be making connections in your field. Definately elite grad school, no matter what the subject.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I see you didn't quite grasp the nuance of my post. Let me break it down for you:</p>
<p>1) We ALL agree, on balance, that ultimately its best to go to an elite grad school if you had to pick one
2) The underlying assumption that you WILL get into an elite grad school is a HUGE assumption to make.
3) Specifically, its much, much harder to get into an elite grad school from an average to below average undergrad.
4) Just look at the numbers. Look at the numbers of undergrads that enrolled into the recent Harvard Law and Yale Law Classes: </p>
<p>Pitt: 4
vs.
UPenn: 63</p>
<p>It's not even close. No matter how good you think you are, the odds are way, way better at an elite undergrad.
5) So, if you can get into an elite undergrad, i'd go, its a bird in the hand. noone is going to promise you a guaranteed space at Harvard or Yale or Georgetown Law even if you think you can punch above your weight at the lesser undergrad (again, look at the numbers).
6) You never know what is going to transpire in the future, perhaps you will change your mind about law, perhaps you can secure a scholarship, who knows?</p>
<p>The point is, I wouldn't simply dismiss a chance to attend an elite undergrad if given the opportunity.</p>
<p>People love to sit there and make snap judgments and type, "of course, go to an elite grad school" as if you are ordering a Big Mac and fries... but let's temper that view with a little bit of reality folks.</p>
<p>A friend was formerly the Dean of Admissions at a Top 10 law school, and I had an opportunity to ask him about the impact of undergraduate school quality on law school admissions. His response was as follows. There are a few schools--HYPSM in particular--where simply being there and having decent success is enough to secure substantial consideration of an application, and increase the chances of admission. There are also schools on the other end (Western Puff Bluff A&M, to make up one, so as not to offend anyone) where you're very unlikely to get any consideration at elite law schools absent something really unique. In the middle, though (and the middle stretches from schools like Columbia/Wash U/Michigan/etc. to schools like Dennison/Iowa/etc. (note: these schools are picked based on rankings, not on any personal feeling about the quality of those schools)), how you did at school is a vastly more significant component to the admissions committee than is where you went. In real terms, if you have a 3.8 at, say, Cornell, that's better than a 3.8 at, say, Alabama, but a 3.4 at Cornell is not necessarily better than an Alabama 3.8, and in fact may be worse. Quality of undergrad school is a factor, as it is in undergrad admissions, but not nearly as big a factor as is accomplishments, particularly since the LSAT provides a further basis for comparison without resorting to quality of schools, grading policies, etc. </p>
<p>The truth is that "prestige schools" are not as widespread as those on this board and in the admissions business may believe. Turning down, say Harvard for, say, University of Colorado involves a far more meaningful risk than does turning down any school outside the top 5 for a school similar to Boulder. The difference between a Top 5 and a Top 25 school is much greater than the difference between a Top 25 school and a Top 100 school, at least as far as grad admissions is concerned (and I say this as someone who went to a Top 25 undergrad school--Michigan), based on the word of a guy who spent 25 years in the business.</p>
<p>@ posterX </p>
<p>what does AWWWS stand for?</p>
<p>I take it: Amherst, Williams, Wesleyan, (Little Three) Wellesley, (Premiere Women’s College) Swarthmore (Odd one out).</p>
<p>He forgot Stanford and maybe Brown.</p>
<p>Elite undergrad. At my school alone you can apply to get your masters and bachelors in 5 years(coterming) so you get both the elite grad and undergrad experience. It’s considerably easier to get into an elite grad school if you go to an elite undergrad. Furthermore, for elite professional schools, there is certianly no guarantee that you’ll get into one. Expecting that can end up being pretty dangerous.</p>
<p>Everyone can give all the anecdotes they want, just go to any top law school site and look at where their students are from. The top colleges are way overrepresented. I’m sure there’s many reasons for that but the bottom line is these threads always assume the OP can get into an elite grad school which might not be the best assumption.</p>
<p>posterX is a notorious Brown hater.</p>
<p>That being said, ridiculously old thread.</p>
<p>Also, law school is a professional school not a graduate school. Elite graduate school is definitely more important, but getting there is not necessarily a straight forward jump from a 3.9 at school X.</p>
<p>If we’re talking about law school, coming from an elite undergrad earns you a little gold star on your application.</p>
<p>Again, with regards to law school, a “B.A., SUNY Binghamton; J.D., Yale” indisputably trumps an “A.B., Princeton; J.D., St. John’s U.”</p>
<p>With regards to graduate school, an elite grad school is what matters, simply put.</p>
<p>grad, imo. i plan on either going to a top law school or attending a prestigious grad school to get my PhD.</p>
<p>I’m going to spin the tables around: does where you attend even matter in less prestige-conscious careers (i.e. education, government, social work, etc.) ?</p>
<p>It depends. For government, if you want to be a politician, it does. If you want to work in government (i.e. police officer or teacher), then it doesn’t really at all, because you get a pay-scale based on the amount of education/experience you have. Even careers like engineering, as my dad who’s got a bachelor’s at a typical state school, and no master’s says, getting a top education gives you a leg-up in getting a job. But, once you get that job, it doesn’t really seem to help. Sure, he knows a Stanford grad who is 2-3 years younger, and maybe earning $10-15k more than him/year, but they’ve ended up doing the same work. The work you do at work is more important.</p>
<p>However, that being said, top schools do give people more opportunity. My dad works at a large corporation: if you’re interested in entreupreneurship, going to top schools gives you connections. And even in engineering, you get opportunities in research before going into the corporate world that could give you a leg-up. If all you’re plnning on doing is going to school to get a job, besides maybe medicine, law and business, more prestige doesn’t automatically equate into better jobs. Just more opportunities. At first.</p>
<p>both equally important. better schools attract and produce better students which produce better career prospects, etc. and so forth. this applies to both ugrad and grad institutions. that isn’t to say you’re not going to be successful if you don’t have one or the other, but you’re just going to be less advantaged than the guy who does.</p>