What's most frightening is that the victim didn't want to tell!

Parents Forum
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<p>"TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) - Marcus Jones said he had a ruptured ear drum and injuries to his buttocks that required 25 stitches after his initiation into the Kappa Alpha Psi fraternity at Florida A&M University.</p>

<p>He told his parents that for four days he was blindfolded, paddled with wooden canes and punched with boxing gloves.</p>

<p>Jones, a sophomore, wanted to keep the February incident quiet, but his father called police. They charged five fraternity brothers under a new Florida law that makes hazing a felony if it results in serious bodily injury or death. Possible penalties range from probation to five years in prison...."</p>

<p><a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15004797/from/RS.4/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15004797/from/RS.4/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>Yuck--that is sickening, especially that folks are defending the abuse as "not serious bodily injury." There are many aspects of "hazing" that are extremely cruel mentally as well as physically. I think incidents like these really give many of us pause in thinking about them.</p>

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<p>And people wonder why some of us are not Joe pro-Greek types....this may not be rampant, but hazing is so much more common than people like to acknowledge....</p>

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<p>uggghhh....that's not hazing. That's assault. Bad things happen in church groups, too but "Let's not indict - the Mennonites." (with a tip of the hat to Johnny Cochran) ;)</p>

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<p>I agree with curm
my daughters high school hazes freshmen
it generally consists of - writing on them with purple pen-the class of the upperclassmen, throwing them in the lake clothed ( if they don't make it clear they don't want to participate)
I see it, as a sign that you are "popular" and it is a ritual designed to bring you into the group.</p>

<p>Holding someone captive for 4 days and beating them- isn't hazing, it is kidnapping and torture</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Holding someone captive for 4 days and beating them- isn't hazing, it is kidnapping and torture

[/quote]
And then, after this, do the kids still want to be part of this "fraternity?"</p>

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<p>Hopefully FAMU gives that fraternity the death penalty and disbands it permanently and immediately!</p>

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<p>Sometimes kids don’t realize the dangers until it’s too late. Fortunately, my S doesn’t like the whole idea of fraternities, he likes to join groups of interest but not be attached by them, but someone very close to us joined a frat and had a very hard time to get out.</p>

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<p>I wonder how many of those who consider this "not serious bodily injury" would willingly subject themselves to a ruptured eardrum and cuts requiring many stitches. My guess is that it'd be zero.</p>

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<p>Florida is one of the toughest in the nation when it comes to anti-hazing laws- it's a felony. The people at FAMU who did this to that student will go to prison. Hopefully the rest of the country will follow suit and initiate tough hazing laws as well.</p>

<p>I'm not trying to minimize anything here, but at my son's frat (in Florida) the hazing, so far, seems to consist of having to do errands, clean up, selling stuff at fundraisers for charity, being designated drivers, going to study hall, dressing up for meals and games, etc. I say so far because I don't have blinders on and I know that anything is possible, but hopefully I've raised him right. So far he's proven himself to be strong minded so God willing he wouldn't subject himself to perversion, violence, or degradation. </p>

<p>I will say this- get the b******s who did this, put them under the jail.</p>

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<p>There can also be civil lawsuits for pain & suffering & medical bills, as well as all permanent damages & scarring suffered. I'd think the frat could be liable as well.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
And people wonder why some of us are not Joe pro-Greek types

[/quote]
Since I am about as close to "Joe pro-Greek" as usually appears on this forum let me state my point of you.</p>

<p>I think incidents like this are sickening and pathetic and serve no useful purpose. The fraternity in question should be disbanded and the perpetrators prosecuted to the full extent of the law.</p>

<p>But yet again, I would like to emphasize that hazing is not only a Greek thing: <a href="http://www.ncaahazing.com/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.ncaahazing.com/&lt;/a> - but unlike the NCAA, national Greek organizations are actually trying to do something about it and not just paying it lip service.</p>

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<p>This is malicious and predatory behavior which the national organizations must stamp out. Let the victims sue and collect their just compensation. I have good friends who are alumni of college fraternities who refused to put up with this situation during their undergraduate days and still can't abide by such nonsense today. FAMU should insist on reviewing the the pledging proceedure for all frats every school year. Moreover, frats shouldn't be alllowed to induct new members unless the average GPA for all active members meets a minimum standard. Maybe that will help weed out some criminals.</p>

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<p>It feels like mob psychology--doing things to others that clearly cause pain. I heard this frat story just after listening to NPR about the 1000 recruits that die in Russian army. Latest tale of boy who had to have legs and testicles amputated after his thrasing.
I agree that every fraternity and college campus should have FIRM rules about hazing. Even kids with morals get swept up and don't know how to tell their fellow students to stop.</p>

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<p>Anyone who saw "School Daze" by Spike Lee would know that black frats traditionaly use pretty harsh pledging.</p>

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<p>Barrons, I saw 'School Daze,' (and I've got the CD soundtrack, heh heh). </p>

<p>But the national organization for the Black frats/soros have made efforts to clamp down on dangerous activities for years. Admittedly, some, like the knuckleheads at Florida A&M, don't get the message. But others do. Multiyear suspensions (i.e. no activities permitted) and total and permanent bans on unruly frats at HUBCs is not unheard of.</p>

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<p>Maybe Frats need to be required to have older alums present during initiations to oversee the behavior.</p>

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<p>okay, maybe I am missing something, but what is the point of some of these traditions- if it is to gain trust, respect, loyalty, bonding, that is just insane</p>

<p>to humiliate others, to cause embarrassment, to cause discomfort and pain, to hurt property, to risk injury or even death</p>

<p>it is very difficult for people to pull out of a situation they are uncomfortable in if others are all watching and egging them on</p>

<p>Anyone ever watch that experiment with the fake prison guards, to see how easy it is to cross that line from fun to power</p>

<p>Hazing and the other myriad rituals often are about power and control, and are just stupid, and it is for the enjoyment of those inflicting the traditions</p>

<p>When humiliation is for the benefit of those watching, that tells me so much about those that are doing asking others to humilate themselves</p>

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<p>Ah, but who says the older alums are any better or less sadistic? I've always been puzzled about the mindset & what you're fostering with hazing--the negatives seem to far outweigh the positives from all I've learned.</p>

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<p><a href="http://www.stophazing.org/fraternity_hazing/index.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.stophazing.org/fraternity_hazing/index.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>One of the most commonly asked questions about hazing in fraternities is why do young men and women participate in such horrific and life-threatening activities just to belong to a group? This seems like a reasonable question--but it reveals the lack of understanding about the dynamics of the hazing process. For example, many states that have passed legislation to prohibit hazing have recognized that the intensity of the peer pressure prevents hazing victims from providing true consent to participate in the activities in question. Additionally, many prospective members don't realize and are not informed of what the pledging process and hazing will entail because this information is shrouded in secrecy by the brotherhood. This, combined with the increasing severity of the hazing over the weeks and months of the pledging process places the pledge in a very vulnerable position and hence, more susceptible to victimization. Compounding these dynamics in fraternities and other male groups is the desire for the pledge or prospective member to "be tough," "stick it out" etc. and prove his masculinity rather than risk being identified as a wimp or sissy.</p>

<p>n the Alfred/NCAA survey of college athletes, hazing was defined as:</p>

<p>"any activity expected of someone joining a group that
humiliates, degrades, abuses or endangers, regardless of the person's willingness to participate. This does not include activities such as rookies carrying the balls, team parties with community games, or going out with your teammates, unless an atmosphere of humiliation, degradation, abuse or danger arises."</p>

<p>“Hazing is an activity that a high-status member orders other members to engage in or suggests that they engage in that in some way humbles a newcomer who lacks the power to resist, because he or she want to gain admission to a group. Hazing can be noncriminal, but it is nearly always against the rules of an institution, team, or Greek group. It can be criminal, which means that a state statute has been violated. This usually occurs when a pledging-related activity results in gross physical injury or death” (from Hank Nuwer's book Wrongs of Passage , 1999, p. xxv).</p>

<p>Hazing is defined by the FIPG (Fraternal Information Programming Group) as:</p>

<p>"Any action taken or situation created, intentionally, whether on or off fraternity premises, to produce mental or physical discomfort, embarrassment, harassment, or ridicule. Such activities may include but are not limited to the following: use of alcohol; paddling in any form; creation of excessive fatigue; physical and psychological shocks; quests, treasure hunts, scavenger hunts, road trips or any other such activities carried on outside or inside of the confines of the chapter house; wearing of public apparel which is conspicuous and not normally in good taste; engaging in public stunts and buffoonery; morally degrading or humiliating games and activities; and any other activities which are not consistent with fraternal law, ritual or policy or the regulations and policies of the educational institution."</p>