What's realistic?

Chance Me / Match Me!
1

<p>When I look at the stats of many of the kids on this site, I am both awed and depressed. I have a son who was a very hard worker and has done some interesting things, but test scores are more iffy.</p>

<p>Here are the schools we're looking at. We obviously have to hone down the list, but I'd like to have some sense of what is realistic. We'll be travelling to see many of them in late July, early August... Financial aid would be nice, but we can manage without it.</p>

<p>And how many apps. should we consider?</p>

<p>SCHOOLS:</p>

<p>U Chicago (Probably apply early action)
Brown U (legacy) (not sure whether to do early decision or not)
Emory (legacy)
U Va. (legacy)
Wash. U.
Amherst
Wesleyan
Tufts
Brandeis
Vassar
Union College
U Rochester
UT at Austin (guaranteed admission)<br>
Clark U. (safety) </p>

<p>STATS:</p>

<p>My son goes to a small private school that just had its first graduating class. The school has less than 200 students. They have two college counselors (one used to be at an established local prep school)and the kids get a lot of personal attention preparing their aps. This year, they had acceptances at Stanford, Princeton, Tufts, Cornell, Vassar, Amherst, Wash. U., Northwestern, etc. so they are getting a good response. Still, it is a new school with no established track record.</p>

<p>His stats look like this:</p>

<p>GPA: 96.6% (equivalent 4.0)</p>

<p>Ranking: technically they don't rank but the materials submitted to the school will show he is 1 out of 42.</p>

<p>Took 3 AP's this year and waiting for scores to return (Lit., US Hist, Bio). Will take 3 AP'snext year: Physics, Calculus, Language. Have taken numerous honors classes - the hardest schedule they had. </p>

<p>ACT 32 (English 34, Math 31, Reading 33, Sci. 29) (Writing scores haven't come back yet. But he had a 12/12 on his first ACT essay and we are hoping for the same.)
SAT II's: Bio 720, World History 770, US History 780 (Possisble double major in history and bio)
SAT I: M - 650 (OUCH), W - 670 (OUCH), R - 700. He will definitely retake. He blew the writing score by not finishing the essay...no conclusion. Math classes have always been ok, but standardized math tests give him a headache. And yes, he did have tutoring to prepare for the SAT I.</p>

<p>EC's (projected through senior year): </p>

<p>Heavy involvement in theater...acting and singing. Has been in a production every semester, starting in the chorus freshman year and worked his way up to leads. Last one was Bottom in Midsummer Night's Dream. The asses' ears were quite stunning. Also Thespian Society. Involves about 250 plus hours of work per academic year.</p>

<p>Flute: 5 years lessons. Helped start the first musical group at his school his junior year...a jazz ensemble that was named after him. (No program existed before that.) "____ and the Jags" Has performed in school and community functions. Will have 2 years involvement at school. (about 6 hours per week including stuff in and out of school.)</p>

<p>Creative Writing: Literary magazine editor, 3 years. Involvement in local summer writing seminars. A few poems published in specialty mags and books as well as school's literary mag. Regular participant on writing website with other young writers who craft fantasy stories.</p>

<p>Life sciences (summer activities) : Docent at Medical Musem after freshman year (25 hours). Summer program at Brown University in microbiology after sophomore year (non-credit); Currently enrolled in Summer program at U Chicago --Research in Biological Sciences (6.6 Univ credits) . Latter is a heavy commitment. Over 40 hours of lab work a week plus homework. Part instructional plus chance to work on ongoing research projects in Chicago's labs. </p>

<p>Community Service:</p>

<p>A variety of things: One summer volunteered 100 hours at a veterinary clinic, 4 years tutoring elementary students, participation in community service weeks in mini-mesters involved about 75 hours of work. NHS - consistent involvement in various community projects (Habitat for Humanity, involvement at local mosque, MS run)</p>

<p>Jewish community: fluent in Hebrew (12 years in school), regular tutoring/study sessions in gemara and other ancient Jewish texts; assisted reading Torah at synagogue</p>

<p>Normal range of clubs and honors: NHS, will be National Merit commended., Dungeons and Dragons, Extreme Chemistry Club (they blow up things), Chess Club, Yearbook (just freshman year) (Since this is a young school, he helped found several of these.) </p>

<p>Involved with all the other students in two learning/exploration trips a year (1 week per trip), each with a special theme: wilderness hiking, following in the footsteps of immigrants in NY, the Sephardic Jews of the West Coast), three week exploration of Jewish heritage in Israel, etc.</p>

<p>What schools on our list are realistic? If SAT I doesn't improve, can we get in by the ACT, but still send the SATII's for them to see (whether required or not). Or will they be so turned off by the SAT I score that it will be hopeless? Schools without tests aren't an option, since we're looking for a certain level of Jewish community and support services. The only other realistic option would be large and/or urban schools like BU or UMd but we'd rather not do that.</p>

<p>A concerned mom.</p>

2

<p>how is he a legacy at 3 schools? Most selective universities only consider you a legacy if one of your parents went their as an undergraduate (i.e. med school doesn't count.) So unless for some reason he has three parents or there's something i don't know (which is more than possible), how is he a legacy at 3 different schools?</p>

3

<p>In regard to your son's SAT writing score, the essay grade is not influenced by whether or not the essay was finished. Whether or not he had a conclusion was not the reason his grade was "low". It really is quality over quantity. I only mention as he may want to go over his essays with an english teacher or someone before the next go round.</p>

4

<p>Big E --</p>

<p>No triple parents or anything exotic like that! Legacy status varies widely. Schools like U Va. and Penn. grant legacy to the children of both undergrad and grad parents. Some institutions even let legacy pass to an applicant through grandparents and siblings. We've spoken with admissions, and it appears our son's a legacy (by their definitions) at these colleges.</p>

<p>Jaime17 -</p>

<p>"In regard to your son's SAT writing score, the essay grade is not influenced by whether or not the essay was finished."</p>

<p>I don't think this is right. If an essay doesn't have a conclusion but just stops in the middle of a sentence, then it lacks organization, and your score will show it, no matter how strong your style or your arguments may be. The SAT people got their hackles up when they read the NY Times article that said you could judge how high something was scored merely by holding the page up on the other side of the room and eyeballing the length of the page. From what I understand, they are now stressing style and organization big time. </p>

<p>I've been a history professor so I feel comfortable dealing with an essay. But we had others look at it to make sure. They concurred that the lack of a conclusion to tie the points together was the single biggest problem. He'll give it another shot this fall. He had no problem with the ACT essay so hopefully this time he'll pay attention to the clock.</p>

<hr>

<p>Anyone else have any opinions on this list of schools? Are we heading in the right direction, or going towards a cliff?</p>

5

<p>Realistic: Emory, UVA, Vassar, Union Clark, Rochester, Brandeis, UT and maybe Tufts.</p>

6

<p>Cami215- I do realize that everyone's experiences are different, but I have found that the presence of a conclusion is not a deciding factor in your score. Personally, I wrote an introduction and two example paragraphs (I did not write a third example paragraph that was promised in my thesis, nor did I include a conclusion) and received a 12. Countless numbers of my friends wrote structured three paragraph essays with intros and conclusions and did not receive as favorable grades. Obviously, there are many factors in the grading process, but I just can't believe that the graders would grade down a great essay just because the student could not finish in 25 minutes. Best of luck to your son!</p>

7

<p>U Chicago - bit of a reach
Brown U - apply early if his parent went there and better sat scores would give a good shot
Emory - match/reach
U Va. match/reach
Wash. U. match/reach
Amherst match/reach
Wesleyan match
Tufts match
Brandeis safety
Vassar safety
Union College safety
U Rochester safety
UT at Austin (guaranteed admission) safety
Clark U. (safety)</p>

8

<p>U Chicago - bit of a reach
Brown U - apply early if his parent went there and better sat scores would give a good shot
Emory - match/reach
U Va. match/reach
Wash. U. match/reach
Amherst match/reach
Wesleyan match
Tufts match
Brandeis safety
Vassar safety
Union College safety
U Rochester safety
UT at Austin (guaranteed admission) safety
Clark U. (safety)</p>

9

<p>Thanks for all the input.</p>

<p>Just curious. He's in a four-week Research in Biology Seminar this summer at Chicago geared to upper level high school students. It will earn him 6.6 Chicago credits. It's fairly intensive, and has the reputation of being the toughest program of this type at the University when compared with the other course offerings. Basically, the kids spend all day in the lab, learning techniques and carrying out various research with both profs and grad students. He goes in at 9 am, gets out anywhere from 5-7 pm depending on how the research is going and then has homework on top of that.</p>

<p>There is definitely no grade inflation. Very different from the microbiology program last year at Brown when he had plenty of time to relax. Many of the kids in the course feel like it is "baptism by fire"! Assuming that he continues to do well, earns a good grade, and a strong recommendation from the professor (which we plan to submit with his app.), how much will this boost his overall undergrad chances? </p>

<p>He will definitely take the SAT I again, and we both think he can up the scores. Oh, yeah, his three AP's came through with 4, 4, and 5. Any other ways to boost his chances?</p>

10

<p>Do you make him do all these activities so he can go to college?</p>

11

<p>Very funny! Actually, I am a little put off by your comment.</p>

<p>He does what he wants, which is why he spends hundreds of hours in the theater every year, writes poetry, and finds plenty of time for baseball and videogames and fantasy rpgs on the net (the literary kind where kids make up a story line). But baseball and videogames and rpgs don't usually make it into an application except maybe starting a fantasy baseball league which he has done. </p>

<p>He came to us begging for the chance to go to a summer program in bio this year and last. The price tag was hefty, but he really wanted it and the programs gave him the chance to work with lab equipment that just wasn't available in his high school. We pulled in the belt and went for it. </p>

<p>This year, he searched the net for research programs in bio or epidemiology and applied to BU, Cornell, and Chicago. Chicago is the one that worked out, and it just happened to be the school that he was most interested in applying to for college. He is a great writer (comparatively lousy in math!) so we are hoping he can have some strong essays in his application, which Chicago really counts.</p>

<p>Kriegz - Don't you ever dream? Don't you ever find a subject or a place that lights up something on the inside? That's the whole point of this crazy chase. Not to get in someplace just because it has high ranking in some guidebook, but to find a real match in intellect and temperament, a place where you can go and learn and get excited about things. Sometimes that means putting in endless hours and other people may even think you are nuts to be doing lab work instead of lounging on the beach. But, in the last analysis, you do those things for yourself, not for any application or for anyone else's approval. </p>

<p>That happened to me when I was younger and I ended up with a Ph.D. in medieval studies. That's not something that brought me a lot of money, but it has made a big difference in my life. </p>

<p>So please don't knock other kids' choices.</p>

12

<p>I'm sorry, but as a male, id much rather have a world that requires no work, no committments. Passion is hard to find, and im happy for your son. however, many people out there do NOT have something that "lights [them] up inside" and that's not entirely wrong either. passion isn't always discovered in the first 18 years of life, especially in a world like this.</p>

13

<p>You're right Kriegz, and I can respect that difference. Not everyone finds that special thing right away. And there are some days when nothing seems right it even to people who think they've found something worthwhile. </p>

<p>For a lot of us, the special thing ends up being a hobby or a special person rather than the job by which we make our living or the school where we go. Whatever it is, thing or person, it takes an investment of time and commitment. If you see that commitment in someone else, it's worth a tip of the hat. And be patient with yourself....for someone who's now at the ancient age of fifty, I can definitely tell you that you have a long way to go, and sometimes amazing things do turn up when you least expect them.</p>