What's the bottom line?

Student Lounge Hispanic Students
21

<p>Ds had to send in the CSS Profile to all the schools he applied to early, except for the in-state public. If they want to know the (sorry) state of our financial affairs, they can.</p>

22

<p>As I stated before, for the relatively few, well-endowed, need-blind schools, they do NOT look at whether the FA box is check or at FA materials (FAFSA or Profile) submitted by the student. Any school that is need-aware can look at the FA information submitted by the student on their FAFSA and Profile documents. Do you want me to list schools here?? If that’s what you’re looking for here are two articles that give examples and discuss the relative abundance of need-blind and need-aware schools:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/31/education/31college.html?pagewanted=all[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/31/education/31college.html?pagewanted=all&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>[News:</a> A Retreat From ?Need Blind? - Inside Higher Ed](<a href=“http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2009/04/06/tufts]News:”>http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2009/04/06/tufts)</p>

<p>Every Hispanic student does NOT check the FA box. But if hypothetically they did, colleges routinely use information such as: zip code, HS (private, underserved, % subsidized lunches, etc.), profession and educational level of parents, summer programs attended (eg. there’s a big difference between the SES of students attending Harvard’s SSP and MIT’s MITES), ECs, essays, etc. to differentiate between the economic situations of applicants.</p>

<p>x-posted withe YDS</p>

23

<p>EA & ED students at most of the top “tier” schools (those students most needing SAT bumps) are applying and being accepted before any FA (FAFSA) documents are received. Are you seriously suggesting that the admissions committees are looking at the economic profiles of their URM applicants to differentiate between the “privileged” and “less-privileged” BEFORE offering admission? Certainly the FA people will, but determining and limiting URMs by zip code / HS is about as accurate as determining racial genetics with a photograph (IMHO).</p>

24

<p>I think that the admissions reps at the selective schools know the HS in their region and they do use zip codes for getting a sense of what type of economic “barriers” a student may be facing. I get this from reading those admissions books and NYT "the envelope"type articles.</p>

<p>Our HS has lots of kids applying to very selective schools but we are also a 60% minority (mainly hispanic) school with 35% free/reduced lunch. HOWEVER, most of the kids applying to the very selective schools come from the neighborhoods that are high income in the district so I am quite sure that what the rep looks at to distinguish the really economically challenged kids from our neighborhood is 1) parent’s level of education 2) zip code. </p>

<p>Now a true and live-time annecdote. So…my son is URM, all IB/AP schedule, parents both with graduate degrees, in a zip code that is very affluent will apply to the same college as his friend in his native speaker IB spanish class…BUT she comes from single parent household, is in a much lower income zip code and parent didn’t finish high school. Will she get a very different bump at a very selective school? I like to think so; I also hope they both get into the school of their choice but I know that girl faced zero academic help at home in her calc class and babysits little brother every afternoon and most nights as her mother works two jobs. Same high school, same schedule, similar grades, both hispanic…totally different socio-economic background…who do you think the selective college degree will impact more on long term future? Do I see the girl as my S’s competition? No, he is competing with the white kids from the same zipcode in the same school. The URM designation, I think, is only a circumstance-blind bump for much less competitive public and private schools in need of improving their stats on diversity.</p>

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<p>“Will she get a very different bump at a very selective school? I like to think so;”
^^^^
I’d like to think so also. However, I don’t think the admissions counselors / committees consider themselves detectives for the purposes of assigning SAT “bumps” for URMs. I think in most cases the college would give her and your son the same “leg up”. If she happens to apply to one of the (few?) colleges that actually spend any time trying to differentiate between the economic advantaged URM form those that are not, she may well not receive the addition help she deserves.</p>

26

<p>The Profile accompanies most (if not all) top tier privates, EA, ED or RD.</p>

<p>From the NYT link that I gave above:</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Yes, this is quote refers to need-aware schools, but it shows that colleges readily use factors like zip code and parent’s background to assess applicants for a variety of reasons. </p>

<p>That said, at this point, I’m quite ready to agree to disagree. I’ve invested enough time and provided enough information (via links to credible sources) to present my understanding of the process.</p>

27

<p>“I’m quite ready to agree to disagree. I’ve invested enough time and provided enough information (via links to credible sources) to present my understanding of the process.”
^^^^
It isn’t a question of whether you have knowledge of the process, it is a question whether you either understand it correctly or have misinterpreted the limited data that you have.</p>

<p>I’m also willing to agree to disagree. Despite your “understanding” of the process, I doubt many of the “privileged” Hispanics will decide not to check both the FA box and the Hispanic box on their application just in case you are incorrect for the majority of colleges. Of course that is just my opinion…</p>

28

<p>What is rationale for checking FA box if you are pretty certain you won’t get aid based on parents’ income, etc.? Not sure I’m following the reasoning for checking FA regardless of actual need???</p>

29

<p>Two theories:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Everybody should check the FA box because you may be surprised and qualify for FA despite what your EFC may be. Also it can’t hurt to ask. If you don’t ask (check the FA box) then you will definitively not receive FA. Many of the FA books recommend that everyone should at least ask (check the FA box).</p></li>
<li><p>In these “difficult” financial times some colleges are making their decisions concerning who to admit based on whether you need FA or not. How many, or which ones are a matter for debate.</p></li>
</ol>

30

<p>" But if hypothetically they did, colleges routinely use information such as: zip code, HS (private, underserved, % subsidized lunches, etc.), profession and educational level of parents, summer programs attended (eg. there’s a big difference between the SES of students attending Harvard’s SSP and MIT’s MITES), ECs, essays, etc. to differentiate between the economic situations of applicants."</p>

<p>I have two questions.

  1. I live in a zipcode where I’m pretty sure the income is fairly low and the public hs that I go to has 60-65% of kids on free/reduced lunch.
    Would that somehow affect me when I check the FA box?</p>

<ol>
<li>How would a college judge the economic situations of students based on EC’s?</li>
</ol>

31

<ol>
<li> Possibly.</li>
<li> It’s mostly at the extremes. For instance, if a student notes that they were unable to participate in many ECs due to taking care of siblings, working to help support their family, lack of transportation, etc. Or at the other end of the spectrum, if the student participates in expensive sports (eg. polo) attends expensive summer programs (not on scholarship), etc.</li>
</ol>