<p>at least at my school, everything is considered "honors" college prep classes so that a 10th grader would have the option of taking US history or... US history, no honors English X or honor US History and no AP US History before taking the first US History class--- as an example. the only class that has some honors sections are higher levels of math, like precalc. so in some schools honors classes are available and are a lot more difficult (or barely more difficult) than the regular sections, although i don't think they should count "rigor" wise as much as AP classes....</p>
<p>My D attended a parochial prep school that had regular classes for college bound kids (all students there were assumed to be college bound) and honors classes for those who wanted the most challenge. Honors English 10 teachers expected a higher level of ability than English 10 teachers. AP classes were the next step. For example, a student who wants to take AP Chemistry will take Honors Chemistry in a previous year; those who do not will generally take Chemistry.</p>
<p>My S attends a large public school (about 1700) that offers a similar schedule of classes. Not all students are college bound, but by state mandate all students must take 4 years of English, math through Algebra 2 & either chemistry or physics in order to graduate. Our local district does not offer honors classes, so students who want to learn more than the state mandated curriculum for math, science, and English have no choice but to take those courses with students who struggle to master the state mandated curriculum. These courses are required before students are able to take AP courses. Two problems here: 1) those who could go farther, faster do not have the opportunity to do so, and 2) those who go on to AP courses have not had as in-depth a preparation as they would have if they had been in honors courses. For this reason, my S attends a school in a neighboring district, where he has taken honors courses (no extra grade weighting for honors, BTW). I DO know the differences between the offerings, since I subbed in our local high school for 5 years.</p>
<p>A few years ago the high school here dropped the "honors" designation, although there still are a small number of AP offerings (6 or 7, I believe). They said they were dropping the honors label because all classes were expected to be honors-level classes -- and it's true that in our region it is the academically strongest public high school in terms of student performance -- but I think the real reason was decreasing enrollment and the fact that there aren't enough students to run double classes, one regular and one honors.</p>
<p>Upstate NY mid-sized (1500 students) suburban school, considered high-achieving hereabouts:</p>
<p>We have non-Regents, Regents and Honors courses for each class, except for certain electives (child psych, music/art/drama, etc.) that are only offered on a non-Regents level. We also have 14 AP classes (including all the languages) and 9 SUPA classes, offered in cooperation with Syracuse University. To make things really confusing, some of the AP classes are also offered as SUPA classes. (The kids in each vigorously assert that theirs are really the harder ones.) It's also possible to be accelerated in both the Honors and Regents tracks for math and science. </p>
<p>We were warned early on to avoid non-Regents and even Regents classes wherever possible if our kids wanted a rigorous curriculum. They had the opportunity to compare their friends' workloads with their own, and there was definitely more work required in Honors courses than in Regents classes; more difficult exams, too. Only a very few students pursue non-Regents classes, usually kids with serious learning disabilities.</p>
<p>In math, it wasn't unusual for kids in Honors courses to post a failing grade, drop down to the Regents level, and manage As or Bs.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Is there some standardized Honors curriculum?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Of course not. This is the United States of America, where every school, or at the very least every state, can offer a different curriculum. None of these terms mean diddly, except that now "AP," since the audit process, means reviewed by AP teachers as to the content of the syllabus. NOBODY knows how well a class is actually taught in the classroom without reviewing the teacher's track record, and how can one do that? </p>
<p>See </p>
<p>for a little more perspective. Some high schools limit students' choices arbitrarily.</p>
<p>Our HS (about 1600 students) offers at least 3 levels per core curriculum. I believe there are 5 levels of some subjects. For instance, students can take algebra 1 split over 2 years. Obviously kids on CC wouldn't be taking these classes but for some with learning disabilities, these classes may be the appropriate ones. For core subjects, there is an honors level. In most cases, there is a more extensive AP level. There are at least 15 APs, probably 20 Honors. I don't think AP level is offered in all foreign languages, just 4th year honors.</p>
<p>Our AP classes are very demanding, cover more information, have harder tests and tougher grading (papers, exams). My son took 9 APs and didn't do any extensive studying for the AP exams because he felt ready for them (and the SATII) and received 5s on most (a couple 4s). The teachers really had the kids well prepared. According to my kids, the honors level are night and day from the regular level. For instance, kids are rewarded for "attempting" the little homework they're given as an incentive for doing homework. Extra credit is available to boost a score. </p>
<p>But kids here aren't taking APs to get college credit in the sense that others talk about. The classes are more interesting; the teachers and students are more engaged. When my 2 kids were applying, we found that mostly only state schools gave credit for APs (as someone above suggested getting 30 college credits). Most colleges we dealt with use the APs for "placement" but you still need to take the required # of classes. You simply start at a higher level. That policy has worked out fine as mine prefer the advanced college classes because they're more interesting than the intro levels - but there really isn't an ECONOMIC incentive. </p>
<p>My DD took several classes at our county college and said they were easier than her HS classes - less homework/reading and much easier tests/grading policies. </p>
<p>Although schools vary, I believe the regional college reps know the HS reputations and are aware of the differences. I think students whose schools don't offer APs won't be hurt as long as they are taking the most difficult classes offered - especially if their teacher recs are good. Teachers KNOW which students are truly interested and capable of higher level work.</p>
<p>Our HS has different designations for different departments. Generally 3 levels, but English has 4 levels--Standard (below grade level), academic, honors, and accelerated (AP track). One year they wanted to condense to 3 levels but parents complained that it wasn't enough choice for kids who didn't want AP but were better than the great mass of kids who would have been lumped into academic.</p>
<p>It's a pretty large school, about 475 kids in each class, so that's enough to need this amount of variety, I believe.</p>
<p>Our district is small, highly ranked by USN&WR and sends a very high percentage to college. There are about 5 AP classes offered and there are 3 classes that are considered "most rigorous" on the profile. No bump in GPA for rigorous classes. There are some remedial classes in 9th and 10th grade if I remember..other than that it's pretty straightforward. With only a couple hundred in each graduating class the kids and teachers pretty much know the mode of operation for the individuals in a particular class. We have our share of senior scholars who don't survive freshman year and our share of "slackers" who rise to the top in college...send some to elite schools, some to LACs and many to public schools, a few take off after 9th grade for prep schools and don't fall into the demographics at all of the graduating class...pretty much middle america.</p>
<p>At my school honors really doesn't mean anything but a 0.3 gpa boost.</p>
<p>The difficulty of the course may also depend on the student population. D1 attends a public magnet at a large public high school. There are AP courses taught from the magnet, which are generally restricted to the magnet kids. There are also AP courses offered in the regular school, which are open to both regular and magnet kids. The regular school AP courses are regarded as easy A's for the magnet school kids, easier than the non-AP courses offered in the magnet program. I don't know about how the AP test results compare between the magnet program AP classes and the regular school AP classes.</p>
<p>Woodpost--that's significant! At most schools it doesn't mean anything re your GPA. I think normally only AP classes are weighted; possibly also the "accelerated" ones leading to AP.</p>
<p>Unless "honors" at your school means "accelerated"? Cause at our HS it means more difficult but not AP track.</p>
<p>From time to time, there are posts here about what "weighted" GPA means at your high school. It points out why it's so important for the school profile that accompanies transcripts.</p>
<p>In our school district (same as PackMom's), an A in a "regular" class is worth 4.0 points. In an honors class (which supposedly is the same as accelerated, mommusic), it is 5.0 points. In an AP class, an A = 6.0 points. Quite a significant difference.</p>
<p>In our school an A+ in a slow class would be 100. In Regents (college prep) it would be 105 and in both honors and APs it would be 110. I don't know why they don't weight AP and other college level classes (there are a couple that are also SUNY courses) more.</p>
<p>In our school there are three levels: standard, honors/gifted, and AP.
Gifted is only in 9th and 10th grades and is open only to kids who went through the magnet middle school's gifted program and is weighted the same as honors: an A in a standard class is 4.0, gifted or honors is 4.5, and AP is 5.0. A lot of kids here don't go to college, so honors is sort of code for college prep. All electives, including 4th and 5th year foreign language (we have no AP language courses) are weighted 4.0.</p>
<p>And yes, we have 3 levels of World and U.S. History: standard, honors, and AP. Daughter took AP World History in 10th grade and is in APUSH this year. There are many kids who take AP for the GPA boost.</p>
<p>In our Central Florida school college prep is highly stressed. Accelerated kids, such as my D, began their H.S. math in 8th grade as well as her foreign language requirement. Administration encourages gifted/honors middle school students to begin 9th grade science with AP Bio, followed by AP Chem and AP Physics during junior year. My D began that track only because my background is biology so I knew I could tutor her if things went whacko. They did, and I tutored a lot, but she got an A in the class and a 5 on the exam. We then went against counselor's wishes and required her to do H chem before AP chem and H physics before AP physics. While others are struggling to pass their AP's (having skipped the honors first), she's flying through with 4's and 5's with relatively no prep for the exams. AP is hugely encouraged at this school; she'll have 10 AP classes when she graduates in
'09. Everyone in honors math is tracked the AP calc track from their freshman year. Standard math is tracked for the split at the junior level where AP track goes pre-calc and the rest go a trig track. Most of the standard math kids stop at this point and don't continue into senior math. We don't have an honors calc, only AP.</p>
<p>This year my D has all AP, except one honors class which will probably be her easiest class. She didn't even consider taking honors in her other subjects even as I told her to "lighten up" her senior year. She says she'd be too bored and that there is very much a difference between honors and AP.</p>
<p>zebes</p>
<p><<ap world="" history="" in="" 10th="" grade.="" give="" me="" a="" break!="">></ap></p>
<p>One of my S's favorite HS courses was AP Modern European History in 10th grade. The average grade on the AP exam achieved by his class was around 4.5. There are plenty of kids out there who have the ability and interest to take APs in 10th, or even 9th, grade. There are plenty of kids who are immensely relieved when they FINALLY get to HS and can start taking classes that provide a modicum of challenge for them.</p>
<p>Our HS has 700-800 kids. They have CP (college prep), Honors, and AP classes in many subjects, and have a remedial level in certain core classes also, but I'm not sure which ones. There is a distinct difference in the workload and expectations between the levels. Almost everyone goes to college, including the kids who take all or almost all CP classes.</p>
<p>Since grades are unweighted at our HS, no one takes an AP for a GPA boost. They take them because they are interested in the class.</p>
<p>Frazzled1, is SUPA Syracuse U Project Advance? I took Project Advance English in my senior year (30 years ago) --- my teacher had just spent the summer at Syracuse learning how to teach the class, and I had to pay SU credit hour charges (I received SU credit, of course). It was THE hardest class I took in high school! It was also the best class I ever took, in terms of preparing me for real life. I learned to research, analyze, and write like nobody's business. I still have wonderful memories of that class. :)</p>
<p>^^^
That reminds me: AP human geography and AP Bio are encouraged in 9th grade (9th-12th). Then AP World's added in 10th, along with AP chem (10th-12th). Twelve more AP's are added in 11th grade, and nine more are added in 12th. They do weight classes differently: standard (4.0), gifted/honors (4.5), and AP (5.0). Gifted's only offered 9th and 10th and then that program's phased out. Oh, and we're a large public with 2,000+ students.</p>
<p>zebes</p>
<p>Isnt this all so crazy? My kid came from a large public school. We have remedial, regular, honors, and AP/ IB. Some classes had all of these levels. But the Chemistry classes were regular Chem. I, Chem II. and so on. However, if a kid went through regular Chem. classes, the kids were testing out to the 2nd year, 2nd semester of College Chemistry. So I dont understand how can admissions teases all this out.</p>
<p>That is a large number of posts. :0</p>