What's wrong with state universities?

<p>I have a friend who is a MD at a major investment bank who does not hire Harvard grads, he personally finds them too arrogant, He loves Penn grads, CMU, Wake etc…kind of a mix. I think it often comes down to the candidate and what they did while at the school. I also think personal bias plays a part.</p>

<p>I’ll weigh in on the public vs. private HS, since that seems to have come up.</p>

<p>There are great and mediocre publics in our area. But our kids went to a great one, and I was surprised that the highly touted private did not offer Latin, which 2 of my kids thought essential, nor orchestra OR band, nor several other APs that my kids liked. The school was good, gave great attention to each student, and undoubtedly got them into the “best” colleges, but I still would not have sent my kids there. </p>

<p>I just realized I wouldn’t have sent my kids there if the private school were FREE, which says something about the HS they went to. :)</p>

<p>We’ve sent our kids to both privates and public elementary & secondary schools, over the years, as our situations and fortunes have varied.</p>

<p>To me, the main issue is tracking. Ideally your kid would be in a class going at exactly the level matching her abilities, so that what was taught exactly matched the level at which she personally needed to learn. Until high school, the publics available to us did not track, which meant our kids who were several grade levels ahead were sitting there bored, for the most part. And they did not have much in common with most of the kids, who tended to treat “eggheads” poorly. The privates were much better. The academic bottom 1/2- 2/3 of the publics was not there in the first place, then on top of that they tended to track more, even within that pre-selected population. Socially the difference was immense, D1 had many more friends in the private.</p>

<p>In high school the differences narrowed a lot, primarily because the public high schools tracked. D1 was for the most part in Honors and AP classes there. But even so, the differences remained. Basically only the top 7% or so of the public was highly academically overlapping with the top 1/3 of the private, so the Honors classes at the public were probably still somewhat weaker. D2 reported there was more and better discussion at her private than at the public honors classes she attended subsequently. The larger class sizes also had an impact here. But the publics had other benefits that, depending on interests, may have been quite significant or even compelling. More special programs, more course offerings, more electives, more extracurricular activities.</p>

<p>There’s nothing wrong with state universities. Some of them might be better than others, but in the end it’s really about what kind of experience you can get. In some fields it’s even more about networking and who you know. State universities are a fantastic way to save money- especially if the state school offers really good programs.</p>

<p>As for public vs. private high school? I think I would have felt too sheltered if I went to a private high school. I went to what most people would consider a terrible public school. People move to other counties to avoid going to my school. My family was not able to afford to do anything like that so I just went and turned out completely okay. </p>

<p>I don’t really have anything against wanting to send your kids to a private school if you think it will give them a better education, but if you’re paying thousands of dollars for multiple kids I think that’s a little crazy. Save that money for college or for the future! </p>

<p>I think it’s really crazy when parents keep their kids away from “public school” just because they’re afraid to send them there. You can’t shelter your kids forever. You can’t pretend the world is something that it’s not. I’ve seen sheltered kids who went to private schools grow up and try to go into the real world on their own- and with downright scary consequences. Not to mention kids are going to be kids wherever they go. I’ve heard bad things about private schools around here just like I have about the public schools.</p>

<p>And I agree about private schools lacking in certain areas. A really great academic school here doesn’t have great sports teams at all. They don’t have a football team, and maybe one or two of their teams are ever any good. So if you’re wanting to go into athletics that’s harder there. They also don’t have a great band, and I’ve heard those kids in the music programs don’t really get that many opportunities because no one really cares. However, at my “terrible” public school we had one of the best bands in the state. I’ve heard of people giving up great spots in private schools to be in our band! </p>

<p>Bottom line: if you’re determined, you can succeed no matter where you go to school.</p>

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<p>When my kids were in elementary school, I visited and toured some local private schools. Despite all the hype – there were quite a few places where the private schools fell short when compared to the public school my kids attended – and my kids were NOT in a fancy or well-funded public school. Just a small school in a suburban district where parents were involved enough to be able to do enough fundraising to pay for a few extras, here and there. </p>

<p>I also saw the private school personnel make statements to visiting parents about public schools that I knew were untrue, in terms of what they claimed was unavailable at public schools – for example, claiming that kids at a certain grade level were doing advanced work for their grade, when I visited the classroom and could see what the kids were reading or what they were doing in math and I knew that they definitely were not ahead of “grade level” for the public schools.</p>

<p>I have to say that I had a similar experience to Calmom. The private high schools in my area did not offer the array of AP classes that our local public high school did. Being that my son took 13 AP classes in high school, this was a problem for us. Both public and private schools can be good. It’s a personal choice for every family and student.</p>

<p>Well that sure isn’t the case in Dallas. Not even close. There is simply no comparison between the excellent private schools (and there are many there) and the public school system. Also, the athletics at the private schools there are strong, as are the music programs. My son took Latin (and Japanese) while he was in Dallas. And as excellent as the private schools were there, the boarding school experiences of both of my kids (two completely different schools in different parts of the country) were another level up. I am thankful we were able to provide this type of education for our kids. It wasn’t done without sacrifice on our part. That said, if I had lived somewhere with excellent public schools and I felt my kids would thrive in the various areas that were important to them (a particular sport for one and music for the other) I would not have hesitated to use the public schools.<br>
In Dallas there were families who lived within the DISD who would rent an apartment in a better school district and one parent would live with the student in the apartment during the week. The school districts required a utility bill and would actually come to the door and check. You couldn’t just rent one and leave it empty. People were busted all the time for doing this. The competition to get into the private schools was very intense. It wasn’t all about snobbery like Calmom implies. There were two excellent private Catholic schools (Jesuit and Ursuline) and a number of families felt very strongly about having their faith be a part of their kids’ education. There was also a strong Episcopal school (now there are two) and while people from all faiths were welcome, the moral foundation that was taught was something many families sought. The list goes on. There were families that chose to move after doing private school through junior high and give their kids a public school high school experience. Moving into a strong football public school was often done for a strong football player. It was all quite a game.</p>

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<p>I actually saw a pretty stark difference between my kids and some private school kids when it came to assertiveness and self-advocacy skills. You pretty much need to learn to stand up for yourself early on in public school. It probably made a big difference when my d. got to college, since she chose an urban location, where her street-smarts came in handy.</p>

<p>At my high school in the Boston area only the poor achieving students go to public school. If you end up at UMass-Amherst, you probably had a 3.0 GPA in CP classes and if you were under that you probably went to UMass-Boston or Worcester State etc… All the top students go to private students and very few people go to public colleges out of state (I was an exception). It’s probably just a Northeast thing since we have so many great private colleges here and not-so-good public colleges that causes people to be blind to how many great ones there are around the country.</p>

<p>^^Right…people shouldn’t have a knee-jerk reaction to one being better than the other. You have to assess what your kids need.</p>

<p>Friends of ours sent their children to private HS because the H was sure it was better than the public for their little darlings. The mom would privately complain about all the running around SHE had to do to get the kids to ECs that the school didn’t offer. Orchestra…theater…</p>

<p>Not to mention they didn’t have Science Bowl, Sci Olympiad, and so forth. They really didn’t know what they were missing. </p>

<p>Oh, but they had CREW. ;)</p>

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<p>That is a really unfair thing to say. School districts get a reputation, people refer to it, so what? I’ve never thought when someone speaks frankly about their impression of a school district’s reputation that they were saying that all parents who send their kids there are unfit. That’s just silly.</p>

<p>We picked our house only in locations whose school districts had a good reputation. We don’t really know if the negative things people had to say about the other districts were valid or not but we didn’t feel like experimenting with our kids to find out. We are very happy with the school district we ended up in and if I had to do it all over again I’d do the same thing.</p>

<p>None of us really knows how college will turn out for our kids. We all just consider what kind of kid we have, consider the reputation of the school and then hope it all works out.</p>

<p>Actually, despite the trashing of the Dallas public school system… I know where my d. would have gone if we had lived there, assuming that she would have made the same choices for high school there as she did locally.</p>

<p>Assertiveness sure wasn’t a problem for my kids. Could have used a little LESS! :)</p>

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Would it have been Hillcrest High School? I seriously doubt it. Was your daughter going to choose the location of your home?</p>

<p>And what’s wrong with crew? It probably appeals to some kids more than Science Olympiad.</p>

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Because the “reputation” is a stereotype and – as I noted before – part of the rationalization that people use to justify their decisions to pay $20-$30K annually for whatever private school they are opting for instead.</p>

<p>Everything that Calmom disagrees with is a “stereotype”.</p>

<p>I am sure that had we lived in Dallas, my d. would have had her heart set on the same public high school that Ida Saki just graduated from. I’d note that the school seems to offer more APs thatn the school my d. attended on the west coast. </p>

<p>And by “assertiveness” I am referring to effective self-advocacy. It goes hand in hand with self-confidence and good judgment.</p>

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I don’t see a lack of that in most of the private school kids. There are different levels of maturity in ALL types of students/schools. Once again, you are “stereotyping”. :)</p>

<p>Last I checked, Ida Saki was in a suburban public school (PLANO ugh) and NOT in the Dallas schools. There is quite a difference. Our family did not want to live in Plano, Texas. It would not be up your alley at all, calmom. It is FULL of status-seeking, upper middle class people who work for greedy corporations and eat out at chain restaurants. Nope. Can’t see you in Plano.</p>

<p>My son went to a Country Day School and then Boarding School. His BS was certainly more financially diverse then the public HS we would have sent him to. He took Chinese. as many AP’s as were appropriate for him and and he was captain of the crew team for 2 years. Yeah CREW. Which by the way builds a heck of a lot of character, this is not a sport for anyone but the intensely motivated, you can’t even be average without working hard. I don’t judge anyone elses choices, but I sure as hell have been judged. I also think sheltering has nothing to do with the school. I know very sheltered public school kids and very independent private school kids and vice versa! My son was accepted to some excellent private colleges including Vanderbilt, Wake Forest and BC among others, he chose a public, W&M. I probably would have chosen Vanderbilt for him, but he will row club crew at W&M and it really wasn’t my decision.</p>

<p>Agree, crazymom. I think there is a lot of judging going on here. I am actually pretty disturbed by this thread, and it’s a shame that some of the same posters can change the tenor of threads- repeatedly.</p>

<p>One of the reasons I am still on CC even though my kids are done (well, D is still in grad school) is because I am extremely interested in colleges and learning more about what is out there. I often recommend public colleges (including many of the SEC and Big Ten schools) to parents/students who are in the search process. I enjoy learning about the experiences at different schools- especially ones with which I have less familiarity. I find myself in discussions with business associates, neighbors and even medical practitioners about various college choices/options. I have always recognized that there are MANY fine schools- both public and private- and MANY factors that need to be considered by each family.
The snarkiness and deliberate mis-statements of one or two posters is getting very old. I try to keep an open mind, but I DO have many years of experience upon which I must draw, too. I would not attempt to diminish the valid experience of someone else and I would expect that the same respect be accorded to me and others.</p>

<p>This thread sure took a detour. I guess the public/private argument lives on at all levels. My kids have gone to private school their whole school career. There are opportunities at our school that aren’t available at the public and opportunities at the public that aren’t available at our school. We chose what works for us. Isn’t that the CC chant – find the best fit?</p>

<p>Let me add that my son will now be attending a public university.</p>