Sometimes the best ranking system (simple, transparent and self-correcting) is right under your nose:
Okay, here’s my favorite ranking system: http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/978040-ranking-colleges-by-prestigiosity-p1.html
@WayOutWestMom would you like to comment on this?
@packattack1018 , acceptance into medical school is based on the strength of the MCAT score, undergrad GPA, LOR, and any related shadowing or work related to medicine. It is not based on the “quality” of your undergrad school. Kids from all sorts of colleges get accepted to medical school. Kids from elite colleges get denied acceptances.
Your kiddo needs to go to a college where she can take the required prerequisite courses for medical school admissions. If she plans to apply directly from undergrad, it would be helpful if the school does committee letters.
Simply attending a “quality school” is not a guarantee for even getting an interview for medical school.
You can’t go by a single list, i suppose ones who do well on most lists are doing good. It doesn’t matter if a college is #1 or #7 among top 10-20. They are all good, neither is perfect or guaranteed to be the best place no matter how high it ranks or how great fit is seems on surface. On other hand, if you are comparing a school which didn’t make even 1 out of 5 of T20 lists, then its not a similar pool.
I think it is ironic about rankings - generally speaking, the schools that strive for the highest rankings and attract the most selective students are the same schools that most decry privilege - which is what all the parents shopping for “top schools” are seeking one way or another.
In any case, a backdoor way of answering your question about rankings is to ask where the students in your child’s GPA/SAT/ACT band attend. Presumably they and their parents went through the same process which has been going on for years. Then cross reference that group of schools with the student’s intended major to screen for possibilities. Then screen for finances - odds are there are a couple of state schools that are likely suspects, a couple of privates that are matches, and a couple of reaches in terms of stats. Any website that compiles the common data sets for all the schools can get you in the ballpark.
The advice about screening for financial health of the school is wise, especially if you think of going to a private school and are dependent on aid.
Pre-med of course is a different animal. The clearest choices for the average excellent student are: affordable state flagship, affordable private where student is likely to be in the top quartile of students in order to maintain GPA. Avoidance of debt is as important as other criteria.
Well about pre med, good friend of mine, three children, two went to USAFA, then directly to med school. Zero debt to him for 16 years of college/med school. Yes they were smart and he did have to pay for the other one who went to an Ivy.
Kidding here a bit. But the Fortune 500 is a really great ranking system. And this is their top ten ceos and their schools from 2016. It tells me that many of our assumptions may be flawed.
Or perhaps the finely honed brands cultivated over centuries reinforce perception that may be overstated in reality. Is the opportunity for a Harvard student that much better from a educational and achievement perspective than auburn. Obviously in toto the answer is yes. But I think Tim Cook may offer a different perspective.
We are so blessed in this country with so many great schools. . And these ranking debates are really odd to me. But fun I guess at some level.
Doug McMillon (Wal-Mart Stores) - University of Arkansas (BS), University of Tulsa (MBA)
Rex Tillerson (Exxon Mobil) - University of Texas at Austin (BS)
John S. Watson (Chevron) - University of California, Davis (BA),
Warren E. Buffett (Berkshire Hathaway) - University of Nebraska (BS)
Tim Cook (Apple) - Auburn University (BS)
Greg C. Garland (Phillips 66) - Texas A&M University (BS)
Mary Barra (General Motors) - General Motors Institute/Kettering University (BS)
Mark Fields (Ford Motor) - Rutgers University (BA)
Jeff Immelt (General Electric) - Dartmouth College (BA)
Joe Gorder (Valero Energy) - University of Missouri-St. Louis (BA), Our Lady of the Lake University (MBA)
We found the Forbes magazine online Top Colleges and Best Value college rankings useful in our D’s college search. While the relative rankings of each college on the list don’t matter that much, we found their “Forbes Financial Grade” particularly helpful as it rates the financial health of each college. For us, a college that is financially strong is more likely to be more generous with financial aid and have better maintained buildings and facilities than a college that is teetering on the verge of insolvency.
I find that rankings aren’t as useful as college reviews from the actual students at the university. Those students can tell you the vibe, the environments, its strengths and weaknesses that a simple ranking cannot. For instance it can tell you the type of student that goes there, whether the school is diverse, how good the dining hall food is, what the social life is like, and the quality of the professors. Those types of things often don’t come off in rankings and imo the college search should be about finding “fit.”
You’re right, simply attending a quality school guarantees nothing. But the factors that do get you in like a strong GPA and good MCAT etc are more likely attainable at a top quartile school than your local community college. It just stands to reason.
No. You can get in from your state schools, smaller colleges and more. Happens all the time. Even for the best med schools. The tougher the undergrad college, the tougher it often is to do well, in the first place. Some brutally and consciously weed out med school hopefuls. There is no high school success that protects the over confident.
And community colleges are not the only alternative to “top quartile.”
So far, you’re asking about top colleges, assuming that’s the key. May help to learn more about what it really takes to get into med school.
And you’ll need to learn what it takes to get into a selective college, more than grades and some titles, and dreams of a future career.
In your other thread you mention that your daughter is a decent swimmer who wants to swim in college. She has a great GPA (4.0) and ACT (31), and she wants to major in biology so she can go into medicine. I don’t think focusing on rankings is a good strategy for her because her requirements are pretty specific.
Since you want to find a team where your daughter won’t be sitting on the bench I think you need to find the schools where she has a chance of being one of the stronger swimmers on the team. That’s a very specific need, so I’d look for swim programs that are a fit first.
Do finances matter? Once you find the schools with good swim teams you can run their Net Price Calculators to see if they’re affordable. Do you qualify for Bright Futures? If so, I’d consider FL universities. If your daughter can raise her ACT to a 32 she might qualify for merit aid. Any money saved in undergrad can be used for med school.
I don’t think the college rank matters when applying to med school. The GPA and MCAT scores do, so you need to find a college where your daughter can do well academically. I’d avoid schools with weed out programs. Once you’ve compiled a list of affordable schools with good swim programs you can weigh which might be better suited to make her competitive for med school. Then I’d let her visit to see which feel like they might be good fit for her.
I really appreciate the sincere responses. However, some have misinterpreted and misrepresented my intentions. I simply wanted to know what resources you use as a quick reference for a thumbnail evaluation of a school. Nothing more, nothing less. And the snarky comments are really uncalled for. Please just let this thread die. It’s way off track and turning into a negative experience. Everyone has been so helpful and cordial on CC…that is until now.
All of them. Then get into the colleges’ websites and learn first hand what they say- and what they show. (Not glossy marketing bits or superficials.) Dig into course offerings, prof interests and backgrounds, student research opps, whether there’s a strict core curriculum or flexibility. What leadership opps, etc. (Th more competitive the college experience, the more top notch peers around, the more you often compete for research or internship opps.) Dig around to see if the school is considered collaborative or competitive, re: premed courses and successes. You could learn what their process is for which kids they recommend to med schools (often, a seriously culled down number of those who started with med dreams.)
There is no shortcut.
And this was started with the word “rankings,” which has been used throughout this thread. If you want an overview, get Fiske or Princeton Review or Colleges that Change Lives, whatever. Or all of them. You can sit in the aisle of a bookstore perusing them. You can find USNews, Forbes, et al, rankings online, free.
But in the end, this is much more than a kid wants career x and has some good hs stats, what’s the “best” school he can get into. You want the right college where he or she can fit and thrive, be empowered, grow. That’s more than overall quality rank.
Andwhen the kid applies, it’s much more than “You will prepare me for med school.”
Sorry you feel this is negative, but a number of us are trying to steer you to learning more. You can start with any top ten and work your way down. The advantage to Fiske is it shows, if you’re interested in college x, look at these, too.
Medical school admission is holistic and does not consider the “brand name” of an applicant’s undergrad. Any college ranked in the top 250 or so will be fine for an aspiring pre-med. All the required pre-med courses–except for biochem-- are intro level classes offered at nearly every college (and community college) in the country. Every year applicants from Ivies all the way down to regional/directional state colleges get accepted to med school. Med school admission is really all about the accomplishments of the student. MCAT, GPA/sGPA are the first discriminators, followed by ECs, LORs, personal statements, essays, interview performance and demographic factors .
AAMC does annual survey of med school admission officers who ranks what factors are important for med school admission. Prestige of undergrad is routinely listed as among the “least important” factors considered.
See p. 14: https://www.aamc.org/download/462316/data/mcatguide.pdf
BTW, no college directly prepares any student for med school or the MCAT. The MCAT requires substantial independent preparation on the part of the student because it’s not a content based exam, but a test that emphasizes critical thinking and idea synthesis. Med school is its own beast. An entire semester’s worth of advanced upper level science class material will be covered in 2 or 3 lectures.
For pre-med, it’s important to consider affordability. Going into debt to pay for undergrad is poor idea because medical school is expensive and there little FA except for loans, loans and more loans. Having substantial undergrad debt may disqualify a student from eligibility for Grad Plus loans–which are usually needed to pay for med school. Most med school COAs are in the $50-85K/year range and professional students can only borrow $40K year in federal direct loans.
Both my daughters went to med school. One graduated from the state U; her sister from a top 30 private (on big merit aid). There was little difference in the opportunities both girls received. Both had multiple med school acceptances. Their med school classmates came from a wide variety of colleges and universities–ranging from Stanford down to a couple who started at community colleges and finished at a directional state U.
An earlier post reminded me that a student does not need to look all over the country. Pick the area that works best and explore that area. It is rather daunting to consider everywhere and generally a student will have a preference. Or pick your region and one other area and go from there. Then consult the myriad of rankings and info out there. Break it down into digestible bits. But yes on the medschool thing.
My D was looking for “top” college in her field of study. We looked at a variety of lists ranking programs (There are lots) and kind of cross referenced. If a school consistantly showed up in the top 10 for her area- we figured it was a strong contender