<p>What is your opinion on ROTC, in general, as compared to West Point? Has anyone seen both on here?</p>
<p>depends on where you go to school. I think theres a long post about this topic somewhere.</p>
<p>Yeah, there are also similar topics posted in USNA and USAFA and possibly Parents forum. The general consensus is, the service academies are your best bet in terms of learning leadership, but ROTC also has its merits. It's much more laxed but still a lot of dedication and service. There are quite a few on Mizzou campus where I attended this year and they all seemed to like it. Some of them were service academy rejects but I think they're pretty content with where they're at and they're not reapplying. But definitely look the threads up, they're quite helpful. It is a good decision especially if your career path does not overlap with the service academies' strenghts.</p>
<p>I think a strength of ROTC is that officers from that source will better understand subordinate officers-the majority come from ROTC. When I get done with West Point, I know I'll tend to think everyone who is an officer will be of the mold that West Point makes them in, and I can foresee not understanding the mentality of some officers under me, because they will be fresh out of college (and fresh out of a life of freedom, booze and fun, which is def not what USMA is about).</p>
<p>you do realize you'll be fresh out of school too and the same rank right???</p>
<p>I think I'll offer my views here...even if I'm sullying myself by venturing over to the Army forum...hehe</p>
<p>I'm currently a mid in NROTC at the University of Washington. I've had a great time this year, and met a lot of awesome people. I was a USNA reject, and after the unit's indoc, I found out that about 80% of the freshman class (22 mids) were also rejects. Out of all them, I am the only one who reapplied. I will be joining the class of 2010 at USNA now.</p>
<p>Yes, it is considerably more relaxed than USNA, but I think that provides for some unique opportunities. I've become good friends with several upperclass (doubt that will happen next year) and listening to their experiences, both from cruise, and from the academic year has given me a lot of insight into the fleet. We also have several OCs and MECEPS (active duty) who come with years of fleet experience. Being able to converse with them in a relaxed setting, while still maintaining bearing and respect, I've been able to learn a lot.</p>
<p>The UW is in a great location, militarily. We have Kitsap-Bangor sub base just north of us, Ft. Lewis to the south, and Everrett Naval Base an hour away. Though I'm a Navy option, I've spent a lot of time with the Marines. Every other weekend we go to Ft. Lewis for a hump, then do fireteam tactics and land nav. We have access to their O-course, and E-courses. June 4th, we're going to have a paintball game and put into practice all the work we've been doing with the fireteam tactics and land nav. It's gonna rock.</p>
<p>For our indoc, we got a tour of a destroyer, and the SSBN USS Alabama. That was a great experience as I had never been on a nuclear sub.</p>
<p>I would love to be going on cruise with my classmates this year, but Plebe Summer will be occupying most of my time...to say the least.</p>
<p>In short, if the service academies don't work out for you, I highly recommend ROTC. It's a great program, and many outstanding officers come out of such programs. If USMA/USNA/USAFA/USCGA/USMMA is where you were born to go, reapply. You'll have a year of college experience and ROTC under your belt.</p>
<p>can anyone say if they are generally better at private, rather than public universities? At least that's what I would think. I am thinking about going to Seattle University which is Jesuit. SO yea...</p>
<p>Army Commissioning Sources</p>
<p>ROTC - Active42% 4500</p>
<p>ROTC - ARNG 17% 1100</p>
<p>OCS 16% 1050</p>
<p>USMA 15% 1000</p>
<p>ROTC - USAR 10% 750</p>
<p>Ironjohn1989:</p>
<p>If you're looking at the Seattle area, I recommend the UW. It's the main location for the ROTC units here. The mids at Seattle University and other 'sister units' are part of the same unit, and they still come to UW in the morning.</p>
<p>It's just more convenient. We have a couple mids at SU, and they have to get up and catch the bus at 0430 to get to drill and PT on time. We don't see a whole lot of them, and as such, they don't get as involved in unit activities due to their distance.</p>
<p>they don't offer any ROTC scholarships, and I kind of need one of those.</p>
<p>Uh...they do offer ROTC scholarships...for all branches...I'm currently at UW on the NROTC scholarship</p>
<p>Maybe you mean that the limit on scholarships students has been reached at UW for next year and you weren't able to get one?</p>
<p>ironjohn, if you didn't get a scholarship don't despair. There was a mix up with my sons appication and by the time he had his interview we were told there were no more scholarships available. We were also told that my son should enter the cadet program and that most likely a scholarship would become available by the second semester. Some students decide the program is not for them and give up the scholarship and some students transfer to another service. My son ended up getting a 4 year Army rotc scholarship to Va Tech. Listen to Dmeix and call the rotc unit, you may end up paying for your first semester but you won't know if you don't call. Good luck to you.</p>
<p>My best friend in the unit came here with no scholarship, but he did the College Program, worked his a$$ off for two quarters, and was finally awarded the 3 year scholarship.</p>
<p>Like lizinva said, you may have to pay for a few quarters/semesters, but you can eventually get on scholarship, even if you report without one.</p>
<p>im gonna be in air force rotc at U Illinois :)</p>
<p>who saw that coming?</p>
<p>mrgreenapple, yes I do realize we're all the same rank right out of college (2LT). I was talking about when you're of a higher rank, and you have to deal with subordinates (particularly 2LTs or 1LTs fresh or nearly fresh out of college) and how their attitudes toward the Army might prove to be difficult to understand at first if you're a USMA grad and have a different perception of the Army and the military lifestyle/profession of arms in general.</p>
<p>"and fresh out of a life of freedom, booze and fun"</p>
<p>I think people on these forums tend to generalize ROTC mids/cadets more than they should. Not everyone who does ROTC does it so they can live that life. Some just don't want to deal with the constant structure. They don't do it to party 24/7. I don't know anyone in the unit who lives like that.</p>
<p>Yes, ROTC is extremely relaxed compared to a service academy, but that doesn't mean that we live like hippies doing whatever we want. In some ways, I believe that ROTC is more challenging than the academies. For instance, we have no designated study hours, and therefore we must have an extreme amount of self discipline to buckle down and work while our friends and roommates go off and have fun, or simply take a nap. And trust me, having the option to sleep after a 4 hour night and 7 mile run is terribly tempting.</p>
<p>So please, stop. When you get to the fleet or field, don't look upon your fellow officers who came out of ROTC and think, "Man...I wonder, how often did this guy got hammered and laid during the past four years while I was locked up at USXA?" Spend some time with an ROTC unit before you start generalizing again. You'll see that the mids/cadets are of the highest quality, and many will become outstanding career officers.</p>
<p>yeah, I would also like to add that generally speaking, the Army has far more problems with USMA graduates at the Officer Basic Courses then it does from any other commissioning source. Every year, Academy grads get nailed for DUI, someone fails a PT test, some one stops cleaning their BOQ and the maid refuses to clean it and the CO finds out, etc. </p>
<p>I also add that retention rates for ROTC officers are higher.</p>
<p>There is no difference between ROTC and USMA once you get into the force. USMA gives cadets better opportunities to prepare to become an officer, but it is solely on the individual to take those lessons and put them to use. Academy graduates have a bad enough reputation upon entering the force because of things that have happened in the past, and the USMA/ROTC rift is something that really doesnt need to expand any more. For your own good, please dont think of there as being any difference between ROTC and academy grads, it will save you a great deal of trouble. Yeah, they may have more fun during the year, but as DMeix says, they have their own unique set of challenges.</p>
<p>I'm going to disagree with you SE on the whole more USMA guys get in trouble at OBC vs. other commissioning sources, but agree on once we get into the force being the same. There used to be some truth to that, and rest assured ALL the officers at USMA will tell you that you better not be "that guy." But, in reality, it doesn't happen nearly as much as they say it does...it's just when it does happen, it is noticed much more because they are "West Point grad." In fact, when 1-2 '04 USMA grads had difficulty with the APFT at MPOBC, they wrote the Comm about it...that was 2 out of 26! Now, there should be no excuse for failing, I agree completely...but they weren't the only ones that failed. It's just expected that coming from USMA that grads should act and be above the standard....not saying it's not expected of every officer, it's just noticed a lot more when you're a USMA grad. Like they say, one bad apple spoils the bunch, and that is so true.</p>
<p>Now, just a quick comment on USMA and ROTC are excellent ways to earn a commission. The bonuses of USMA are consistently talked about here, so I won't go into them. But, there are some extremely good ROTC programs too. What is MOST important is the quality of officer AFTER commissioning--cause my Gold Bar looked just like the ROTC grad's gold bar, and my PL duty description was the same as my ROTC LT, and OCS LT counterparts. I'm proud of where I went to school, and I feel like USMA more than prepared me for the challenges of leading my platoon (36 months as a PL, 1 year combat tour in Iraq with it)...but it all comes down to individual motivation, desire to learn, and ability to lead. I've seen products of all three commissioning sources succeed and all three commissioning sources fail.
So, my advice to those of you that are USMA cadets or are going to be USMA cadets is to take advantage of every opportunity you get, because you, by the nature of being at USMA, do get more opportunities than ROTC guys do. For those of you deciding where you want you to go and what to do...weigh the requirements, the lifestyle, the motivation for going (if you aren't sure you want to be active duty, and you're not sure you can commit 5 years active and 3 years IRR, then maybe USMA isn't for you, but ROTC with an effort to go AR or NG is), but know that either way you are going to graduate, commission, and pin on those butter bars and have to be ready that day to lead Soldiers. What SE said about being the same once we get into the force, he is correct. Teamwork among peers, regardless of commissioning source leads to success.<br>
To all of you graduating High School and heading into the ROTC or USMA--go in with enthusiasm and fight to maintain that drive! For all of your graduating from USMA (and ROTC), CONGRATS--at USMA it's grad week--and even though the days are very long, and the parades are tiresome, when you watch the Corps pass before you at the graduation parade, it is something you'll never forget. On Saturday, toss those covers high, pin on those shiny gold bars, enjoy some well earned leave, but get ready to dive right in cause this Army needs you and needs you to be prepared to work hard! God speed!</p>
<p>yeah, that came out the wrong way, and the good CPT is more on the money; it's not that WP grads mess up more, but when they do, it's under such a greater microscope than everyone else. Sorry to mislead a bit on that.</p>
<p>You guys are right-I unfairly generalized the ROTC graduates. However, I've seen two detachments of Army and Air Force ROTC, and I know the social environments of both schools (public and private, both party hard) and based on MY experiences, I can safely say that I'm glad I had a year of ROTC so I can understand from the inside the previous training of a ROTC graduate.</p>
<p>I can totally understand why USMA graduates cause problems-the whole arrogance thing. It was a problem years ago when my dad, USAFA grad, was in pilot training. He told me himself that USAFA grads tended to be more arrogant. While Academy grads have a lot to feel accomplished about, I've always found it sad that many work so hard and then lose control once they're out of the Academy and into the service. However, I think the number of people who do that is small, and I know there are some Academy grads who give USMA a bad name once they hit the service, but I'm guessing/hoping that's the exception to the rule.</p>