Whay is everyone on this forum soo...

<p>Nevermind, it's impossible to make an argument that you can succeed at average public schools against kids at top schools whose entire self-esteems rest on that fact.</p>

<p>And before you say "you just can't argue your case," I would reread your posts and look for the phrases "generally accepted," "that's just not true," etc. and try to find anywhere you gave an actual reason that my point of view couldn't be right. Saying it's obvious, or excuse me, "probabilistically reasonable," isn't a reason. It's a refusal to even consider the opposing case.</p>

<p>^ What exactly is your case?</p>

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Nevermind, it's impossible to make an argument that you can succeed at average public schools against kids at top schools whose entire self-esteems rest on that fact.

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<p>Seems to be that you're beating up a strawman here. No one has said that you can't succeed at a average public school. Our point is that people have a higher chance of success at a top school relative to an average school. </p>

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And before you say "you just can't argue your case," I would reread your posts and look for the phrases "generally accepted," "that's just not true," etc. and try to find anywhere you gave an actual reason that my point of view couldn't be right. Saying it's obvious, or excuse me, "probabilistically reasonable," isn't a reason. It's a refusal to even consider the opposing case.

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<p>"sigh" Fine.
Maximizing</a> the Investment in Your Child's College Education</p>

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If your child is Ivy caliber and aspires to a career that insists on a designer-label diploma such as investment banking or corporate law, it’s worth paying even the sticker price of an elite private college such as an Ivy or Stanford and certainly the price of an elite public institution such as Berkeley, UCLA, or the University of Virginia. While these schools have large classes taught by research- rather than teaching-focused professors, and these schools can be pressure cookers, the lifetime income and status gains are typically worth it. In addition, students grow a great deal from spending four years around the nation’s best and brightest.

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For most other Ivy-caliber students, for example, those aspiring to be physicians, executives, public-interest attorneys, or other careers in a non-profit or government agency, the best payback probably comes from attending an elite public university. There are ample opportunities for challenge by taking difficult classes and honors programs, and the Ivy-caliber student at these institutions will stand out and thus be tapped for campus leadership positions, opportunities to work one-on-one with professors, which in turn, leads to great recommendations and leads on good jobs.

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<p><a href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121746658635199271.html?mod=loomia&loomia_ss=t0:a19:g2:r2:c0.0780021%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121746658635199271.html?mod=loomia&loomia_ss=t0:a19:g2:r2:c0.0780021&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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the median starting salary for Ivy Leaguers is 32% higher than that of liberal-arts college graduates -- and at 10 or more years into graduates' working lives, the spread is 34%, according to the survey.

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<p>What this basically means is that there is a fairly strong positive correlation between those working in lucrative financial fields and degrees conferred from top schools. Even if the people choose to work outside of finance, they would have a better chance of success/ return on investment if they attend a top public. Now before you pull the "correlation isn't causation" card, note that the higher correlation of between top schools and income over time relative to average schools means that there is a higher chance of prestige being the causation of higher incomes. Now that means if I choose to go to a top school, I'm more likely to earn more.</p>

<p>Coffee Break has presented us with an interesting choice. Cornell or San Jose State. While few people will have these two colleges on their list, it is an interesting thought. Why would anyone choose SJSU over Cornell?</p>

<p>A student who is interested in a computer science major and interested in a high tech future, you might very well choose SJSU over Cornell for undergraduate computer science studies. This student is in the right place for landing some amazing internships with some of the most respected companies in Silicon Valley. Just a thought. </p>

<p>Students apply to colleges that meet their academic needs and interests. Ideally, when compiling a list, a student intending to major in Journalism, for example might look for the schools that had the best success rates with those who received their degrees in journalism. They might investigate how many students in that major write for the campus-run paper, and also the quality of this newspaper. Not every student who is a journalism major will write for it - they may have paid or volunteer internships, elsewhere. Some of this data is impossible to quantify, and a call or email to the department of Journalism at the college, or a to the campus-run newspaper might get results. It is possible that students may be working on the paper as a hobby, not as training for a future vocation. </p>

<p>They might factor in location, size of campus, what types of undergraduate learning opportunities, internships, etc. When applying, they might be applying to a reach, match or safety school. When admissions offers come in, they would factor in Cost of attendance and whether the school matches their big picture needs. </p>

<p>A student might choose a college with a less prestigious ranking for a multitude of reasons - such as family or medical situations, financial aid packages, because a girlfriend/boyfriend goes to a different school, the chance to play a sport, but aren't recruited into athletics for Division I schools, or who knows what else. The human mind is an interesting thing. </p>

<p>So how can a future journalist decide what college is right for them? </p>

<p>The student can research the "student journalists" of the year, and see the range of colleges represented, and then look further to those school-run newspapers to see archived articles by those students. </p>

<p>They might look at the teaching faculty and see what kind of credentials the faculty has. They might also look at the schedule of classes for a college during a particular term, and see who is teaching the undergraduates. Then, the student could click on the credentials of the professor or instructor, and see what they have accomplished in the field of journalism. When I refer to credentials, I would want to see them active in their field at some point in their careers - that is, writing for a periodical. They may have written for Time Magazine or the Washington correspondent for CNN or may be a roving journalist - the key would be to find out if they have real world experience. </p>

<p>Lucky for all of you, Rate My Professors.com can give a good insight into how well professors interact with students at a particular university or college. Look up by professor and see what the students are saying about the professor. You will see the good and the bad, and it might give you an indication of how well the professor teaches. This and other sites like it, also may give superficial data, but it is just one tool that a potential student may use to learn about the quality of the professor.</p>

<p>When the student looks at the rankings of schools, it is harder to judge this program, largely due to the changing nature of journalism in the 21st century. Some of the schools that have consistently gotten top rankings in this field throughout the last decade are Northwestern, University of Missouri at Columbia and Columbia University. </p>

<p>A potential student might look at the different types of curriculum involved, and can get this information at the individual school's website. Is it theory-based? Hands-on? Focused on new media or print? What is the philosophy of the department? </p>

<p>It is sometimes impossible to figure out why a student might choose one college over another. So many factors can go into the decision. Not everyone has the same methodology for choosing a college.</p>

<p>I honestly don't think that prestige has anything to do with income (in most cases). Rather, I think it's because it takes certain qualities to get into an Ivy league school, and those are the qualities that will also help you be successful in life. The resources of an Ivy league institution may help you land a first job, but beyond the first job, employers will care more about your work experience and less about the name on your diploma. I'm not trying to argue that there are no advantages to going to an Ivy, only that graduating from an Ivy is not a guarantee of success. A motivated, intelligent student could do just as well at a state school or liberal arts college- the only reason the averages play out in favor of the Ivies is because the concentration of motivated, intelligent students is much higher in the Ivy league.</p>

<p>I'd like to add that many of the reasons for going to an Ivy can't be justified simply on the basis of career outcomes. For example, my two favorite things about Princeton are the students and the faculty. I am challenged to a degree that I would not be at the state schools I was considering. The reason is that the classes in my major (math) are taught at a much higher level than they are at the other schools on my list. The quality of the student body is what allows the faculty to do this. Now I'm also pretty happy that IB and MC firms give a huge advantage to Ivy students, but I think the academic quality alone is reason enough to choose Ivies over state schools. And before you say that some people don't have the luxury of being so picky, remember that in many cases financial aid makes Ivies cheaper than state universities.</p>

<p>By the way chris07, which would you choose: Yale or MSC?</p>

<p>chris07, I fail to see why you are so bent on assuming that all of those who disagree with you go to Ivy League schools, especially when at least one person has mentioned that this is not so.</p>

<p>Anyway, I fully agree with Weasel8488, there are plenty of reasons to attend and Ivy League school besides future income and prestige. I personally do not live solely to seek out the highest-paying career that I can, and so the future income reasons do not apply to me. People tend to get so caught up in discussing "future benefits" of a so-and-so education, that they forget that we spend 4 full years of our lives in college. That's what I based my choice on: how much I would enjoy the time I spend at my chosen college. </p>

<p>And there really are a lot of benefits in terms of the experience you have at different Ivy League schools. Of course there are the students and faculty, as Weasel mentioned. There are also individual benefits at each Ivy League school, ones that may not be /because/ the school is an Ivy, but still are good reasons to go there. In my case, I am very excited by Columbia's core curriculum, its Japanese program, and the fact that it participates in the Kyoto Consortium (something that actually /is/ mainly limited to Ivy Leagues and a few other schools). As you can see, there are a variety of reasons to attend Ivies that are often overlooked - amusingly - by the people who accuse Ivy League students of only seeing schools for the prestige and future income aspects.</p>

<p>Though this hasn't been discussed in the last page, I also disagree on the "Ivy Leagues are a waste of money" issue. In my case, most of my other choices, for example every single school in the UC system I applied to, weren't significantly (more than $5000/year) cheaper than Columbia. Only one other school was significantly cheaper, and I still love that school, but in the end I went for the smaller student body, the Kyoto program, and NYC. Also, as Weasel mentioned, financial aid often makes Ivy Leagues cheaper for low-income students. Between this and the cost of private (and some public) colleges being the same as the Ivies, I really see no wind left to the cost argument.</p>

<p>Hello as of right now attending Quinnipiac University I completed my freshmen year and I am going into my sophomore year. In high school I had the opportunity to play college football and I decided not to play. I am now trying to transfer so that I can play football. Here is the list of schools that I am looking at to play football.</p>

<ol>
<li> Dickinson</li>
<li> Franklin and Marshall</li>
<li> Hobart and William Smith </li>
<li> Gettysburg</li>
<li> Muhlenberg</li>
<li> Rochester university</li>
<li> ST. Lawrence university</li>
</ol>

<p>As of right now I have a 3.0 and I am going to Quinnipiac in the spring to raise my gpa. I was wondering how much help I will get with admissions because I will be playing football, I also wanted to know how likely it would be for me to be admitted.</p>

<p>^You may want to post on the "College Admissions" forum. People that can help would be more likely to see this there.</p>

<p>I personally have no idea.</p>

<p>lol what a random thread to hijack.</p>

<p>INVENIANVIAM, you are officially my hero! That lilian09 girl was like out of her mind. You put her in her place!</p>

<p>In case you guys are interested, here's the salary breakdown of various colleges.
[url=<a href="http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/info-Salaries_for_Colleges_by_Type-sort.html%5DWSJ.com%5B/url"&gt;http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/info-Salaries_for_Colleges_by_Type-sort.html]WSJ.com[/url&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/p>

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INVENIANVIAM, you are officially my hero! That lilian09 girl was like out of her mind. You put her in her place!

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Why, thank you.</p>