Law school is a graduate school so probably not germane to this conversation. Graduate schools, prestige is a BIG factor in landing jobs. For undergraduate, consider it like this. Does going to a top private prep school do anything for you? IMO, yes, since you’re already “screened” and the course rigor is there, it will help you get into a top undergrad school. The same thing applies for top undergrad schools, you’ve already been screened coming out of a top undergrad school (top 20) so you get a boost. However the real boost comes from graduating from a top grad school. Even in STEM the top scientific positions (which includes government and academia) are dominated by graduates of prestigious (graduate) schools. Of course this is due mostly to all the “screening” that has already been accomplished.
You all raise some good points. The prestige or lack thereof may be a factor down the road if one wants to change careers. I hadn’t realized that undergrad prestige was a factor for non-profits like museums. I can see for an undecided student or one who simply wants to keep many options open, that prestige could come in handy. Whether that edge is worth the extra tuition is clearly a personal matter. For me, it would not be. But, if I could spend the money without any consequences, it might.
Also, its nice to know that most career paths are still accessible regardless of where you begin your studies.
To me, this is the difference. I’ve seen success come from any college if one defines success as graduating and being able to find a job one likes that sustains themselves (or grad school, or whatever). There’s not much difference there - maybe some networking connections at “better” schools, but all schools have alumni that can give one connections.
The difference is in the journey along the way (during those four years). My lad had a peer/friend his same age and both wanted to become doctors. My guy chose a Top 30 National Research U that cost us some money, but not a ton due to aid he received. His peer chose a totally free to him Top 30 Regional U. When the two compared notes his peer was jealous of all the research opportunities my guy was getting. His school had some, but not much in choices, so he had to choose what was there rather than what interested him. He outright said he wished he had chosen differently.
Both are now in med school (though my guy is in a much higher ranked one if that matters). Both will become doctors. Both will be successful. My guy enjoyed his path getting there. His peer liked college, but is wistful about what he could have done for not a lot of extra money in the grand scheme of things.
(We are NOT talking about adding high loans - both lads had good stats.)
In other words, you are being judged at least partially by how well you did two schools ago, if the prestige of your last school is considered.
There are many well-paying jobs (high six to low seven figures) in finance and investment outside of NYC (where standard of living is also very high) where locally/regionally “prestigious” colleges/universities provide better networking connections than those from tippy tops.
Like legacy status gives a student from wealthy background a leg up in many selective colleges, the many advantages prestigious boarding schools provide come with the students’ families, not with the schools themselves. Of course there are always outstanding (, non-rich) students in boarding schools who do well, but they would be good anywhere anyway.
Examples of where I would say undergraduate prestige “can” matter:
Wharton for Finance
MIT, Stanford, Berkeley and CMU for CS
Princeton/Dartmouth Economics(Top undergraduate colleges)
Just to play devil’s advocate here.
“The prestige of coming from a top private school made the investment bankers see him as an equal.”
I can see that, though that far out in a career, people (even investment bankers) care more about your work experience.
“Without that degree, it would not have happened. The head hunters would not have even submitted him as a candidate.”
So how do you know that? Did the headhunter tell you?
“More recently, my D who has a BM degree in Vocal Performance applied to top MBA programs. I doubt she would have gotten the acceptances/ scholarships she did if she had studied at a much lower ranked school–even if they had a good music or theatre department.”
And how do you know this?
A few years ago a very prolific poster on this website was a NYC based recruiter for the legal field & insisted that most of her former clients demanded that layers be graduates of a top 6 or so law school.
I find this hard to believe as work experience is a significant factor when one is more than a few years out of law school, but this poster was adamant in her stance.
It may come as a surprise to some people here but there are indeed attorneys who work outside NYC/white shoe law firms. And many of them do quite well. NYC well? No. But quite fine nonetheless. And most NYC associates don’t do NYC partner well.
“Even in STEM the top scientific positions (which includes government and academia) are dominated by graduates of prestigious (graduate) schools. Of course this is due mostly to all the “screening” that has already been accomplished.”
Very true statement above. As you read more and more brief description of board of directors/CEO, or even head of governmental agencies, one can see most of them are associated with very top colleges. So do all those past US Presidents, VPs, law makers… But for people they aren’t super ambitious, it shouldn’t matter too much.
@meredithfp - while it may be true that many students who she perceives to be slackers at her HS also got admitted to UofO, that does not mean that many who continue to be (or subsequently become) slackers will still be there by junior year. Some won’t even last through Thanksgiving. Some of the slackers will begin to hit their stride once they are in college, so she will probably have some surprises there too! UofO really, really wants her. The faculty is waiting for her. So are the other kids who also got that big scholarship. She can have a terrific experience there if she chooses to do so.
Re fancy non-profits and museums: In previous generations those jobs pretty much went to grads of top institutions who also came from families with the money to donate, and who also had enough family money so the kid could do all kinds of volunteer internships along the way. Things may have changed.
The truth is that so much still depends on the student’s own background. A prestigious institution does not guarantee entree into the upper class. It sure didn’t for me or my middle class friends! What it did get us was alum events that weren’t solely centered on sports unlike our HS pals who went to state Us.
Thanks so much for this response. I’m hoping she warms up to UofO after a couple of upcoming visits.
@PurpleTitan do you have links to some good discussions on Philosophy degrees? My son is considering it.
As a lawyer, I can tell you that prestige is the key that opens certain doors early in the career for many, and much later in the career in terms of policy and government work. I have had a wonderful career, including judicial clerkships, but the ability to get political appointee jobs and higher level positions is certainly impacted by where you went to school. If the types of doors that the prestige degree opens aren’t the ones you are interested in,then no worries. Stick to a well regarded regional school in the geographic area that you want to practice.
I once interviewed for a lowly teaching position at a private HS in Canada. I was told the reason I didn’t get it was because the candidate they hired had gone to an ivy. So, yeah, prestige matters in unsuspected ways.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/angst/201111/realities-studying-philosophy-non-elite-school suggests that philosophy PhD programs are rather school-elitist with respect to applicants’ undergraduate schools (in philosophy, not overall). Of course, academic hiring of tenure-track faculty at universities is highly competitive and generally viewed as very school-elitist (in major) with respect to one’s PhD program.
@VAMom23, right, I read the Schwitzgebel post on philosophy referenced above.
I certainly do not discount the power of prestige in all fields (if going for a JD, really only T14 makes sense, though I wouldn’t turn down a full-tuition scholarship at a T14 for full-pay at YHS, and for an MBA, get one from the 25 or so schools in the top 15 at least; ideally the M7, though I wouldn’t turn down full-tuition scholarship at a top 15 for full-pay at an M7).
But there are cheaper ways to get a prestigious degree than full pay for 4 years of undergrad as well.
@ucbalumnus Actually you are being judged by your last school. The competition keeps ramping up. If you go to a prestigious prep school and you graduated with a 2.x your not going to a prestigious undergrad school. Same thing happens as you go from prestigious undergrad school to prestigious grad/job and prestigious grad school to job.
^^ Thanks for the philosophy link.
@PurpleTitan I agree. We are lucky enough to have great in state options where “full pay” is relatively cheap. Or, I can move to North Carolina and got for instate at UNC. All better than full pay at the Ivies.
Your last school is a reflection of how your did at your second to last school (plus other factors like money to pay for school). So the job that prefers to hire students out of prestigious colleges is implicitly suggesting that top-end high school achievement needed to get admitted to those prestigious colleges is a criterion for being hired. A law firm that hires only from top 14 law schools is basically saying that your undergraduate achievement must have been high enough to have gotten into a top 14 law school.
Yes but the overriding consideration is the GPA that you have from that top 14 law school.