<p>My S is threatening to change schools after this semester. </p>
<p>It's been a hard month. He's had trouble adjusting because he isn't interested in the drinking and other things the freshmen in his dorm are getting into. The food's terrible. Between all the core, non-major or minor courses he was advised to take his first semester and the fact the classes have been less than challenging, he's bored. He's found out that, since the school considers him a freshman despite the fact he has enough hours to be a junior, he's not going to qualify for the internship he wanted. Ever.</p>
<p>Tonight he called to complain that a programming assignment, one that was a third of his semester grade, wasn't going to get in on time because files he was required to use were badly coded and didn't do what they were intended to do. It's against the instructions of the assignment to correct them. It was due in two hours. He was further along than the rest of the class. If it's late, it's 50% off. He's ****ed because he's used to better. He knows he could code better than that and wonders why he should put up with it.</p>
<p>All this at a very, very expensive top 25 school.</p>
<p>It's getting harder to tell hiim that things will get better. It's getting hard to argue that he's getting his money's worth and that he shouldn't transfer to a cheaper school. </p>
<p>I'm not sure what to do but ride it out at this point. Suggestions?</p>
<p>See how it is a month from now (he might as well complete the semester) then transfer out. It sounds like he won't have a good time there ever. Many kids (at least from my experience) go to a college they do not like at first, then transfer back to stay at home and go to community college for a semester or two, then transfer to another college.</p>
<p>Oh, my. So sorry to hear it. (what school? CMU?) What expensive schools should be able to offer, above all else, is good advising. Does your son have an advisor? Can he sit down and tell him his troubles? It might not help of course, and may confirm that he needs to transfer, but another pair of eyes and ears on the scene can often be helpful. </p>
<p>The drinking, thing, though, usually gets worse as winter comes on (if it's in the northeast or midwest), or later into sports season. As on every campus, there will be 20-30% of students who actually don't drink at all, though that is little aid in dealing with a dominant drinking culture, if that's what there is. At any rate, he'll need to make sure to seek them out. And (if it is CMU), at least it's in the city, and there's more going on around him.</p>
<p>Strick
I am so sorry the year has started so badly for S and family. I recall that CMU had a healthy dorm, and many smaller dorms. There were also lots of fast food eateries in the computer science buildings. I'd have more to say, but am not sure if your S is at CMU in CS major (bad memory)</p>
<p>My son had a friend who couldn't stand his first year at a school and was sure he would transfer and in the end he is there for a 2nd year and happy. Remember this is a big adjustment!</p>
<p>Please excuse but I checked. It appears your son is at Carnegie Mellon in the Comp Sci program? So. I have two thoughts. First, maybe this is just the scepticism so common to talented software people. In that case, tell him to hang in there, and to try a lot more stuff before he decides. If maybe he really truly doesn't like the GUI/client side stuff that SMU is known for then Berkeley or Wisconsin or Stanford or Cornell are better.</p>
<p>But...life is a drag sometimes and how you squeeze the fun back into it is what brings the cream of the crop to the top.</p>
<p>I know a junior who just finished a year internship at a well known computer company. After the year, the boss called him in to apologize for not teaching him any new technical information. He learned NOT ONE NEW TECHNICAL THING--in a year! (if I told you which company, you'd be shocked, believe me). Part of it was his natural intelligence, part of it was that his two years of AI education was so good, part of it was that he's helped his parents launch new software products as a teenager--and part of it was that he was so darned good, he got thrown in to the corporate scheme as a able body player.</p>
<p>He declined to accept the apology from his boss--because he ahd learned so much about how to operate in corporate culture.</p>
<p>There is talent at CMU, he hasn't found it. So that is challenge number one:</p>
<ol>
<li> Find the talent and ingratiate yourself. ;)</li>
</ol>
<p>The second lesson has to do with interfacing with recalcitrant institutions. </p>
<ol>
<li> Keep after the administration with various strategies until you get what you want. Go higher and higher up the ladder--but do so with humour and grace. Don't burn bridges.</li>
</ol>
<p>The third lesson is about optimism. If he were my son, I would say there is no way CMU wants a talented student to be bored. Both he and CMU have the same goals.</p>
<ol>
<li> Try to stay positive and find the positives to keep you going and refresh your strategies of getting what you want.</li>
</ol>
<p>You know what? There is NOTHING NEW in software technically these days. Process-wise, yes. Hardware (i.e. consumer devices etc.) yes. But pure software? Nada. Unless you are a mathematician. In that case, algorithms for search, for scalability, for security. So. If you are looking for new you have to invent it yourself.</p>
<p>Strick -- first of all, a word of experience: take whatever your kid says with a grain of salt unless it is sustained over time. There are ups & downs at every college, and kids have a tendency to call when they are in a funk and then they pour out all their frustrations... then you don't hear from them for 3 weeks while you are tearing your hair out with worry, and when you do talk again, the kid has forgotten all about the first call. Some kids are just gripers, so they use every call to the parent as an opportunity to vent their frustrations, all the while going cheerily about their business the rest of the time. (My son griped a lot his first year of college, rounded up the year happy and enthusiastically flew off for his second year, where I heard not a word of complaint until late spring, when he suddenly announced that he was going to take time off and not return to school the following year. Like I said: ups and downs.)</p>
<p>In any case, it is never a good idea to talk to someone under time pressure in the middle of a computer programming task that is going sour. </p>
<p>It does sound like your son's issues might be more serious than that-- I'm just saying that sometimes things work out over time-- and the best time for you to talk with your son about the problems are on a day when he is a relatively good mood,- because of course things always seem darkest when a person is feeling angry or frustrated. </p>
<p>I am sorry that you are feeling disappointed and have a sense of not getting your moneys' worth at a top college. I do feel that when I browse the internet looking at college catalogs, that the large state universities seem to offer more opportunity and more challenge, at least potentially, simply because they do have larger departments and more resources. A kid like your son coming in with advanced standing might really do better at a state u. where he could bypass all the introductory courses. Of course, no one starts looking at course catalogs and calendars to see what courses are actually given every semester until they are actually there -- and then again, at the state u's, kids often are unable to get into the courses they want do -so it's no bed of roses there either. But I just wish I could get my own daughter to listen when I try to point out that the best place for her to meet her academic goals might also be the one with the $6000 tuition. Keep in mind that the worst case scenario if your son decides to transfer to a public university is that you'll save a lot of money.</p>
<p>So I think you should tell your son to try to hang on for now, and plan to have a heart-to-heart talk when he's home to visit. There is no shame in transferring if it comes to that.</p>
<p>Thanks for the concern. We've been hoping that he'd settle in and find himself at the school (his desire to leave comes and goes), so we haven't looked into changing dorms or anything like that. I'll see what's possible.</p>
<p>He's spent some time with his advisor who admits this semester isn't going to be typical. It would help if the one computer science class he's taking were more challenging. He's worried that it simply isn't that different from the courses he took at a near by state university. He expected more. I'll admit he may be a little too cocky to recognize what he might be learning, too, but he had some pretty serious coding experience before he got to school. This was the most advanced class they'd let him take.</p>
<p>He had sort of gotten past the initial disappointment by planning some independent work that would keep him busy and challenged. But the bad code he was forced to work with today has him furious, first because it's not to the standard he'd hoped for from this kind of school and second because it wasted an enormous amount of his time. It would never have been a good thing, but his grandparents had traveled up to see him today.</p>
<p>We're hoping that he can hold on to next semester when he has more programming classes that will be much more advanced. I'm sorry to hear that the drinking gets worse. We've tried to encourage him to find friends who aren't drinking. Sounds like we need to stress that more. That and finding more serious students to hang out with. Find the talent, right?</p>
<p>Calmom, we looked pretty hard at UT, but frankly the school was too big and impersonal and he liked the faculty at CMU better. Personal choice kind of thing. Part of the reason he expected more, from getting to meet the faculty.</p>
<p>My sons always reserved all their complaining for me. While there was a nugget of truth in most of what they complained about, most of it was just venting. One of mine tended to be worse than the other, making mountains out of every molehill. Eventually I started answering every complaint with a genuine (not sarcastic or mean) "What are you going to do about it?" At first he'd get angry, often throwing it back at me but I'd just stick with it. He has been slow in learning that he is responsible for his own happiness, not me. </p>
<p>Two years running now he has gone off once or twice on a "transfer" toot. I've told him to go for it, roll up his sleeves and start researching colleges and we'll pay the application fee. He never takes me up on it, it's too much work. I think what he would like would be for me to do the research, find him the perfect school, help him with the application and then be on hand to listen to him complain after he gets there. </p>
<p>FWIW, my other son complained a lot about bad code while he was at Stanford, and now he's working with Ph.D's and still complaining about bad code. I think it's a CS thing.</p>
<p>Of course. You don't think anyone's code is as good as mine, do you? Well, oddly enough, I'm old enough to know what's good enough is good enough and I should focus on what I'm supposed to do. Or more honestly, what the people working for the people working for me are supposed to do. :D</p>
<p>Alum...this kid worked for a hardware company and part of the internship, obviously, was that he would be able to incorporate new technical knowledge. It just didn't happen...for the reasons I stated.</p>
<p>As for nothing new...uh...not sure I quite agree with that. There's new technical stuff in architecture so there's gotta be new stuff in CS. </p>
<p>My brother is a CS guy who hated his first university. It wasn't a good fit for him. He ended up at Berkeley doing Russian and Math.</p>
<p>However, he did manage to burn every possible bridge at the initial university. He made appointments with all the top brass and blasted them for the boorish behavior of the freshman. Uh...huh? </p>
<p>His rant made not one bit of difference. His would be an example of how NOT to go to the top.</p>
<p>While he was at Berkeley in the early 80s, he lived in a hippy commune. Funny thing--all the hippies worked at TRW developing relational database software. A few got super rich with the advent of Oracle--where many optioned or bought Oracle stock. My brother kicked himself for not buying in. </p>
<p>Well, the software architects I spend my days with say there is nothing new at the moment. It's all about scalability and security for what's already possible, plus new devices. So yeah, hardware has new stuff but software? Not from what I hear from the Cornell PhDs I work with.</p>
<p>Now client side, UE, theory, sure, but that's not pure code. Software process, i.e. agile development vs. other methods, sure. But seminal work like http and java? Nope.</p>
<p>My D is at Berkeley and she called last night, frustrated with a notorius weeder class. She is doing fine, better than average, seeking study group help, but she simply does not understand why they want to teach the way they do---why a weeder class, why not teach me the stuff so I can fully understand it, instead of making all those people fail. I must admit, like the OPs son's comment on the lousy code, I do agree with her premise, but we had the talk about not trying to fix the world and simply learning it as best she can...which appears to be better than most of the kids, but not as well as she would like.</p>
<p>There are some very valid points your son has, the problem is whether anything can be done about it or if he simply needs to survive without going crazy ;)</p>
<p>Strick, since your son accumulated enough credits in hs to attain junior status, perhaps he should transfer to a college which would accept all or most of them, graduate in 2 years and go off to grad school where he will live and breath csci. His education may lack some depth but by your post he seems to prefer that.</p>
<p>There are many alternate paths through life and perhaps your son would be happier taking an unconventional approach.</p>
<p>This link is an article about a recent grad in my son's csci department which provides an excellent example of what I am talking about.</p>
<p>Now is the time to take it all with a handful of salt. Easier said than done. If fact I am the one who takes my freshman daughter's comments literally. It is my wife who seem to really understand the stress of adjustment and the need for some venting. We have had our ups and downs. One day, my D is bored and feeling like she should be doing more. By the next day, the pendulum has swung and she is overwhelmed, has too much to do and can't keep up. The food, noise in the dorms, making friends and a whole bunch of other issues have had there ups and downs. At this point we are just listening and trying not to take any of it very seriously. Only time will tell if it all works out or remains a struggle.</p>
<p>Here's a little tale of caution:
I went away to college and knew the very first week that I hated it. My parents discouraged me from transferring, telling me to ride it out and I'd get used to it. Before I knew it, I was sort of "entrenched" and I never did transfer, but even all these years later I REALLY wish I had. It would have been the right thing.</p>
<p>Weenie, I'm sorry you stuck it out for 4 years -- my advice is more along the lines of encouraging the kid to at least ride things out for the semester before making up his mind. The problem is that there is a lot of adjustment going on during the first semester of college for everyone. The kid is where he is right now, so he might as well try to make the best of things and use it all as a learning experience, even if all that he is learning is an understanding of what he does NOT want in college. (I mean, negative learning can be good, too -- its how many of us learn what line of work we do NOT want to spend the rest of our lives doing.) But of course if things don't start looking up, he should explore other options.</p>
<p>My sense of things is that Strick's son was dazzled by the reputation of CMU, and now is facing the disappointment that his classmates are just immature kids rather than the brilliant minds he expected, and the classes are not at the stellar level he expected -- so now it is a big disappointment. I think that's an unfortunate aspect of the whole ranking/prestige game -- parents and kids end up attaching unreasonably high expectations to the schools at the top of the rankings. The reality is that no matter where the kid goes of to college, he ends up living in a dorm surrounded by 18 year old kids away from home for the first time embarking on a journey of discovering alcohol -- and the basic content of an introductory level college course isn't all that much different at a Harvard as it is at Podunk U. </p>
<p>CMU is probably not nearly as bad as Strick son's perceives it, and probably is still a lot better than many alternatives... the problem may be that it is not nearly as good as he had hoped and led himself to believe it would be. So he's stuck with dashed hopes -- its just that somewhere along the line before he transfers he needs to figure out what he really wants from his college experience and the best path toward realistically getting it. Which may or may not require a transfer.</p>