When it pays to go to a private school over a public university

Parents Forum
81

<p>Tonight I was talking with my daughter who will be going to large Flagship State U. about class sizes. Seems that some of the classes will only have 25 - 30 people in them. D was not happy. She's looking forward to huge lecture classes jam packed with students. She said - I just want to listen to the lecture- take my notes and that's it. So, lots of personal interaction with a professor just isn't everyones cup of tea.</p>

<p>The bottom line is - I just want my kids to be at a school where they will be happy.</p>

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<p>This debate could go on forever. I agree that liberal arts majors should become more like science majors, to misquote; they could use a bigger dose of science/math classes... (eg howcum social science and humanities=2/3 reqs...?)</p>

<p>I keep wishing there were as many good science schools as there are liberal arts ones- where the majority of students live science along with their other personality traits. We need to clone MIT-type schools to meet demand.</p>

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<p>"This debate could go on forever"</p>

<p>Not if you stop and enjoy some fine Wisconsin cheese. It's hard to arguementive with a nice gouda sliding across your lips. </p>

<p>You threw up the beat me about the head and shoulders post and got pumbled a bit... Now try the sharp cheddar.. it's breath taking.</p>

<p>And by the way, don't take things so seriously. We all die in the end.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
The bottom line is - I just want my kids to be at a school where they will be happy.

[/quote]
Whereas I want mine at a school that develops their potential and gives them a sense of fulfillment...which is not quite the same thing. "Happiness" is a cheap commodity, imo. It's a nice by-product but I'd never make it an end in and of itself.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
"Happiness" is a cheap commodity, imo. It's a nice by-product but I'd never make it an end in and of itself.

[/quote]
Nearly 5,000 posts and still hasn't discovered the true meaning of life! Sad. Semantics!</p>

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<p>How did we get from "public v. private" to "large university v. LAC"? As far as I know, there are several wonderful private schools that are also large research universities. And a couple of public schools that are more LAC-like. These are not the same questions.</p>

87

<p>most families/students typically do not pay full sticker price. And while cost is one factor in determining college choice there are many other factors to consider.</p>

<p>Our son is attending a well respected private university which is costing him about the same as our flagship and is in an academic program not offered there.</p>

<p>Generalizations make for good conversation but often little else.</p>

<p>BTW-i am a public U alum and never regretted the choice in the slightest.</p>

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<p>Chevda - yeah, I noticed that, too. I'm thinking, wait, my kid went to Penn - where does he fit? Who's side is he on?</p>

<p>I'm interested in this discussion because we might be needing to make this decision soon. My d has applied to all out of state and/or private schools because our instate publics don't offer what she's looking for. I'm guessing her one public (out of state) is going to offer her the most money. So we will have to examine carefully what the cost/value ratio is for her. It's not an easy question.</p>

<p>I was also confused by the comparison ratio of "good schools" and "advanced degrees." I personally am rooting for the school that makes my kid successfully independent faster. :) I would dearly love it if my music kid could get a great job directly out of college and not have to tread water in grad school first. In fact, both my sons consider applying to grad school as a "back up plan" to not getting a job. (And my music son's private teacher at college was a drop out! Who plays with the NY Phil. Success isn't always measured by the numbers of initials after your name. Sometimes the reverse is true.)</p>

<p>But cathymee really did say it best. I'm glad there are all kinds of schools, because there are all kinds of kids.</p>

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<p>"Serious science majors benefit from being able to do research in top grad labs as undergrads and presumably will be heading to grad school"</p>

<p>Actually students in places such as Harvey Mud or top students at state schools that do not have big grad programs are often doing work that is done by grad students at top places. Often they are getting nice stipends too. I know a former student who attended a top research university but had to go home for a semester (mom had cancer). The student attended a local state (third tier university). Students comment was that the freshman were doing research there that one could not get until junior or senior year at the top school. Also profs were much more approachable. A good student who does not go to a big name private or other top school often stands out and is taken under the wings of the profs. Ironically,that person may actually have better opportunities.</p>

90

<p>Tarhunt
"Yes. And you could also give them a reading list, put them in front of computer-based tests, never let them see a classroom or a professor, and they would be just fine.</p>

<p>But I woulnd't recommend it."</p>

<p>Of course you wouldn't. The last thing any college wants to knw about is students who succedd without theere help. Just like many who want to pooh-pooh anybody who suggests that students make the school and not he other way around. As was posted above there are choices for everbody. Four year, two year, night time, part time, day time, full time, big, small, public, private, after working a few years, after going to the military, expensive, cheap, selective, non-selective, distance learning, live at home, board etc. I have seen good students do great things and reach their dreams following every path. There appears to be a bias on this site for going to a four year school right after high school and using magazine rankings,marketing, and the school as a way to deterime outcomes more than the characteristcs of the students themselves. A former student was visiting this week from a top school. We spoke about this site and the admission process. He said:" It is really too bad that people have many of these arguments. People forget that it is like 4% of your life and it is the beginning and not the end of your learning. The hype of all of this is amazing and so overblown and people make way too much of where they should go undergrauate." Anyway the best choice is the one that works for you. IMHO</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Anyway the best choice is the one that works for you. IMHO

[/quote]
well oldolddad I totally agree many folks on this board, in my opinion, go overboard in regards to college admissions but I do not agree with the sentiment above. I do agree that many-many options for approaches and for school choices would "work" for most students ... that said I think all choices and schools that would work are FAR from equal in how well they would work. For my kids I hope they spend a reasonable amount fo time to move from a choice just above the "it works for me line" to someplace closer to "I think I'm going to love my exprience" and where they can make an informed argument of why they think that is so. Of course your mileage may vary.</p>

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<p>oldolddad:</p>

<p>
[quote]
There appears to be a bias on this site

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You're saying there's such a thing as a non-biased opinion? News to me. Everyone who can actually ever make a decision is biased. The issue is whether the bias is justified or not. Very few biases are ever justified to within a 95% confidence level or better.</p>

<p>This is why reasoned discourse is useful.</p>

93

<p>Tarhunt: I agree. But it is interesting looking at the USNWR SLC thread that you have been in on. People are blasting the rankings. Yet look at this site. You pull up the list of colleges. "Top" colleges", "top LAC's". Another ranking. Then look at the hits on say a small LAC versus say U of Washington. The site is dominated by those interested in the "best" on some list. It is like my daughter says about her own "top" school: "We live in a bubble". This is a small percent of the population. What happens is that some regular, more represenitive kid or parent comes on here and reads the threads and 1) Thinks the threads are gospel; 2) Thinks that the threads are representitive of the population as a whole or 3) Thinks that because they do not have the stats of those on here or because they are not looking at the collges that so many of the posters are looking at that they themselves are either inferior or have no chance of success. Sometimes the perspective on the site is not too broad.
By the way I enjoy your posts on several of the threads.</p>

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<p>Well, if you mean there is a bias among the population that frequents this site towards competitiveness and getting in to the most selective schools, I would readily agree with you. If you mean there is a bias towards ranking, I would maintain that this is the human condition.</p>

<p>To me, it doesn't really matter if a kid chooses a college because it's highly selective (which has a strong relationship to being highly ranked) or because the school's colors are red and gold and those are the kid's two favorite colors. I guess I don't feel I have any responsibility for people who make buying decisions based on criteria I believe are specious. If they want more information, then it's available on sites like this one and scores of publications and thousands of web sites. </p>

<p>We humans rank practically every minute of every day of our waking and active lives. As I write this, I am choosing words that seems the "best" to me from a list of words I could use. I am ranking them, in other words, and choosing the best ones that occur to me. If I gave it more thought, I might think of more words to rank, and one of those new words might be better than one I was going to use. If I really wanted to give it more thought, I might build some sort of stated semantic and syntactical criteria with which to evaluate particular words but, since that is very time-consuming and my word choice here not so very important, I don't do that.</p>

<p>The reason I left the other thread was because it was no longer useful to present rational arguments, and those I did present were often simply ignored, even when they were well-considered and took a fair amount of time. No one over there seems to understand that ranking systems are a fact of life. It is how we humans operate. ANYONE making a college choice has ranked the options and chosen, however well- or ill-considered that ranking system, and resulting choice, may be.</p>

<p>US News has simply presented a ranking system based on a published methodology and footnoted when certain data required are incomplete and/or missing. One can argue productively that there is a better way to rank, that the US News methodology could be improved, etc. But I don't feel it's productive to attack rankings, per se. I also don't feel it's productive to attack the sex drive, though some people do. Both are part of the human condition.</p>

<p>We are not going to save people from making sub-optimal decisions.</p>

95

<p>Tarhunt, it's funny. I agree with most of what you wrote in post #94. I also agree with much of what you wrote in the other thread. </p>

<p>We do rank constantly. It is part of the human condition.</p>

<p>We also define ourselves by our differences and disagreements as much as by our similarities. </p>

<p>We also rationalize our decisions. </p>

<p>Many times, we find arguments to match our conclusions. We don't always listen to arguments and then come to a conclusion.</p>

<p>Although, I disagree with many of your arguments about USNWR, I do like reading most of your posts.</p>

<p>I hope my word usage in this post was excellent. </p>

<p>I do.</p>

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<p>d:</p>

<p>Fabulous word choice ;-)</p>

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<p>Thanks. :)</p>

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<p>Applause, applause to you both :)</p>

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<p>"We humans rank practically every minute of every day of our waking and active lives. "</p>

<p>Interesting - I'd never thought about it in those terms. My dad makes explicite ranks all the time - best golfer, best senator, best tenor (with examples, yipes) ... drives my husband and I nuts but I can see now where I should be a bit more charitable!</p>

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<p>Is it a guy thing, do you think? ;)</p>