Dadinator- Love your link. It’s brilliant!
The link I posted in post #1890 is to a Penn & Teller video in which they convince people at an environmental rally to sign petitions to ban dihydrogen monoxide (water). The number of people who blithely sign without questioning the person offering the petition after being told things like “it’s a chemical in our lakes and streams and it’s gotten into our food supply” is frightening.
It’s been around a long time. My government teacher used it to show how to critically think about websites
At the very least, he’s violating the Hippocratic oath.
I’m surprised that anybody would take umbrage at the simple fact that declining to get the flu shot is unpatriotic. I think patriotism is more than putting a flag sticker on your car. I think it’s being willing to accept some risk (and cost) for the benefit of one’s fellow citizens. Getting a flu shot is a simple way to do that.
I hadn’t seen that particular website, but every year my kids’ middle school science teacher gave a presentation on the dangers of DHMO. After most of the kids went home and spoke passionately with their parents about the danger of this horrid chemical, scouring their food labels for DHMO she let them in on the gag the next day. They then had a long discussion about critical thinking and questioning sources and were given an assignment to find incidences of junk science in publications or on the web. One of the most useful assignments they ever had in MS.
Most people do not get a flu shot every year. They just skip out on it. No time, a nuisance, the risks just aren’t there. I believe that more people don’t get that vaccine because they just don’t get around to it, than believing it will cause them more harm than good. They just believe the good that does is worth making it a priority item to do. I don’t think most people even think about it much. They just don’t do it and the season is over before they know it.
But let a big 'un in the flu world hit hard, and the lines will be around the block to get the vaccine that year and for a few years thereafter.
I don’t doubt for an instant that the vaccines carry risks. A lot of scientists, doctors have come right out and said so, and it’s deceptive IMO not to recognize those possibilities. The issue is the dangers of the loss of herd protection. The sad fact of the matter is the vast majority of those who are willing to risk the lives of those most vulnerable, will likely not get personally affected until things go pretty danged far.
Patriotism is love of country, not love of fellow citizens. That’s something else.
Love of country and love of fellow citizens are different things. And I believe you can have the latter without the former. But I’m not sure how much you can really love your country if you do not have some degree of love for its people. What exactly would you “love” about your country that would not include wanting its citizens to be safe and well?
So your concept of “country” is real estate? I don’t agree with you at all.
Let me put it this way: most of us don’t have too many opportunities to demonstrate patriotism that aren’t just symbolic, or that aren’t routine (like obeying the law, etc.). Getting a flu shot is a choice you can make to demonstrate real patriotism.
^Needle-toting flag-waiving pro-vaxers? It used to be gun-toting flag-waivng gun lovers.
Are people who don’t pay taxes also unpatriotic?
For those who think pediatricians refusing to accept and treat children from parents who choose not to get their children vaccinated, here’s a new twist, which sheds a little light on how to manage medical practices:
While I’m glad it’s happening, it hadn’t occurred to me that these other parents would threaten to leave a practice and push these decisions onto the pediatricians.
You mean people who cheat on their taxes? Sure.
No, neither do I. But I believe scholarme is a first-generation immigrant, correct? So maybe her “people” loyalty lies with others from her home country. That might explain her perspective a bit.
" I have no words for the “pox parties” or any of this ridiculousness. It makes me sad for our kids and future grandkids (and not just regarding their physical health)."
I don’t remember going to one myself, but I did seem to think “our generation” (who didn’t have a c pox vaccine like today) did pox parties - not to the point of sucking on lollipops, but I do seem to remember that if someone had c pox, other people tried to deliberately expose their kids and “get it over with” so they could then be immune. Am I misremembering? I had c pox around age 6 or so - my kids got the vax and still got it.
I can see why someone would want to deliberately expose kids to chicken pox. We missed out on our close friend’s wedding and festivities when our first one got the chicken pox. Had to cancel flights and arrangements. Because this was our first child and he was just a year old, we were concerned, plus I’m not even sure if the child care provisions we had in place included babysitting a baby with chicken pox. If a nursery school class, all the friends are coming down with the chicken pox and one’s schedule was freer than usual, it might well be the best time for the kids to get the chicken pox rather than letting Murphy’s law have its snot in this regard.
On a more serious note, those kids who have cancer or other health situations in their lives, getting the chicken pox during a time of remission, or having siblings get it on a controlled basis could be a life saver. As I said before, the pediatric onc floor would lose an average of a kid a year to chicken pox.
Now with the vaccine, this sort of thing isn’t necessary. Just get the kid vaccinated. But in my day of raising young children, that was not the case.
Not exactly a “Pox Party”, but when my youngest had Chicken Pox (all three of mine PLUS my DH had it within the span of a few weeks…now THAT was a fun time) a friend and neighbor asked me to bring her over to play with her son so he could be exposed and just get it over with. My kids missed out on the CP vaccine by just a few years.
The doc in the above article is one of my kids’ pediatricians. Good on them for hearing the concerns (and addressing these concerns) of parents who are aware of the importance of vaccination. As our area is a hotspot for nonsensical adoption of pseudo-science trends, I am encouraged.
I guess we were on a different timeline. Varicella was available for my kid when my kid was still young. Pox party sounds like medieval.
Flu shot = patriotism. Oh good grief. But it’s nice to laugh first thing in the morning.
BTW…wouldn’t that make picking your nose (germ spreading) unpatriotic?
Pox parties were mostly pre-varivax. Post-varivax, some parents still wanted to wait and see if their children got cpox, and I would tell them that the chances were lower as more children became vaccinated. If their kids didn’t get cpox by 9-11, I’d counsel that they should get the vaccine, as cpox in older kids/teens/adults is much worse. Of course, I vaccinated my kids, because one of the worst deaths I’d ever seen was a (healthy) kid who died of pulmonary hemorrhagic cpox. I’m obviously biased.