“When I asked my doc if I needed to get the shingles vax, he explained that as long as my chicken pox immunity/vax was working, I wouldn’t get chicken pox and without first having chicken pox, I couldn’t get shingles.”
@milee30 ,
this is NOT correct. Even those who have had chicken pox or the vaccine or EVEN the old shingles vaccine CAN get shingles! Because the immunity for all of them wears out after a period of time.
THAT is why all adults , especially those over 65, are now encouraged to get the NEW Shinglex vaccine, which is much more effective at preventing shingles, and lasts for a life time.
I watched my mom get shingles in her 30s. We’re pretty sure it’s what triggered her Graves Disease. If there’s even a 10% chance that the cpox vax will prevent shingles, I’ll take it.
Yes, the recommendation is for ANYONE over 60. There are no exceptions that I’ve read other than those who have an allergy or some other rare instances.
Asheville was on my list of potential retirement moves. Now, I have to worry. I don’t have grandchildren now, but I don’t want to be in a place with an anti-vax community and have to be concerned that any grands I might have be in danger. My youngest had chicken pox at 8 months old because he was too young to be vaccinated and was exposed to a kid whose parents chose to not to vaccinate him and to bring him to my D’s birthday party. My two oldest had chicken pox, pre-vaccine, and the two middle boys had the shot, the youngest then had the disease as mentioned above. His case was so bad I had to wean him because the sores in and around his mouth made nursing too painful for two weeks.
Anti-vaxxers will be found everywhere.
True, but in some places, like NY, where I live now, obtaining a religious exemption against vaccinating is extremely difficult. It is easier in other places, so there might be a larger grouping of anti-vaxxers in places like that which would make the spread of disease easier. I am not so worried about my potential grands when they get to be old to be vaccinated, it’s when they are too young that I am worried about.
“this is NOT correct. Even those who have had chicken pox or the vaccine or EVEN the old shingles vaccine CAN get shingles!”
OK, so help me understand. Shingles is caused by the Chicken Pox virus. If I’ve never had Chicken Pox - ie have never been infected with the Chicken Pox virus - how exactly do I get Shingles? Wouldn’t I first have to have Chicken Pox? And as long as I’ve never had Chicken Pox - confirmed via titered blood test - I can’t get Shingles, right? Now, if I do contract Chicken Pox at some point (which can happen if I come into contact with a person with either Chicken Pox or Shingles), then I will need to be concerned with getting Shingles but not before that.
The current recommendation for everybody over the age of 60 to get the Shingles vax is based on the idea that everybody over the age of 60 has had Chicken Pox, which is mostly true. But if you’re one of the few people who haven’t had Chicken Pox, how exactly would you get Shingles?
If you have not had chicken pox, you cannot get shingles.
However, you may have had a subclinical case of chicken pox without knowing it, so you could get shingles even if you think you “never had chicken pox”.
Note that if you have had neither chicken pox nor the vaccine, you can get chicken pox from contact with someone with shingles.
When my youngest was about 3 in Pre K, chicken pox was going around. Yep, some anti-vaxers were at the school there and we didn’t worry at all. The kids had all been vaccinated. One day my oldest kiddo had bumps. My spouse said wow, it looks like chicken pox. We checked, kiddo had received 2 vaccinations. Well, guess what? Kiddo had gotten a case of wild chicken pox-a variant which the state health department said they are seeing more and more of. I had not gotten chicken pox as a kid and had been tested ( no immunity). I had only had one shot due to being able to get a fresh shot ( as an adult). So thankful I did. I got wild chickenpox also. Just on my feet and hands. Pretty mild. Don’t think I would have known what it was if my kiddo wasn’t a confirmed diagnosis.
I am not a fan of anti-vaxxers. I am sympathetic to children who cannot get vaccinations due to health issues and are then put at risk.
“However, you may have had a subclinical case of chicken pox without knowing it, so you could get shingles even if you think you “never had chicken pox”.”
Nope. Not just based on memory, backed up by the blood test my doc did when he didn’t believe me. There are people who haven’t had chicken pox. Not just that they don’t remember, they actually haven’t had it. But I’ve had the chicken pox vaccination twice and hope to avoid ever getting it.
Wonder if they start seeing more of the wild version Happytimes2001 mentions if they’ll add that version to the vaccination.
Whenever I’ve read about “wild chicken pox” it is used to differentiate “natural” chicken pox from that transferred via vaccine, which does happen occasionally. “Natural” chicken pox = “wild” chicken pox.
I have never heard of wild chicken pox. Is that one of the reasons everyone should be vaccinated? The viruses will mutate and the vaccines we have will no longer work?
I know “herd immunity” is one reason but wondering if mutation is not also a potential issue?
@yearstogo See my post above yours on “wild” chicken pox. We posted at the same time.
@Nrdsb4, Any thoughts from a medical professional’s perspective on the question of whether people who have never had chickenpox can get shingles, and the effect of chickenpox vaccination on the incidence of shingles?
“Wild” usually refers to viruses circulating among the population, as opposed to those in labs for research or being bred (to reduce the effects of infection) for vaccine production. Perhaps “mutant” is a better term to describe a wild virus that has mutated away from the origin virus used to breed vaccine viruses. (Mutation can also affect the virus being bred for vaccine use to make the vaccine less effective, as apparently occurred in one of the influenza viruses in a recent year vaccine.)
Here is a documented instance of someone who had chicken pox at age 5, vaccine at age 15, and chicken pox again at age 19: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4529600/ . The paper does refer to new variants of the virus being discovered in the US and Canada (the case described in the paper is from India).
It is unknown whether varicella (chicken pox) vaccine will help prevent shingles. The varicella vaccine is a live, attenuated virus, so, in effect, the vaccine recipient is getting infected with the chicken pox virus to trigger an immune response. That’s why the shingles question is still an unknown. People who have been vaccinated “had” the virus. (I have an MPH)
110,000 measles deaths worldwide in 2017. There were increases in 5 of the 6 global areas designated by WHO.
@Sue22, I used to be a non-flu shot parent. When it first came out, it was pushed SO HARD that I wondered if it was some kind of conspiracy! (And no, I’m not a conspiracy theory kind of person). Other reason: “We never get the flu.” Fast forward to last year both of my sons got the flu. When I was chatting with my doctor about the flu shot and who is at risk for the really bad cases, he said something simply profound, that most people are persuaded to get the vaccine by the thought of being quite sick for 10-14 days. It’s true…missing that much school was hard to recover from and they really were in bed that long. Flu shots for us now. (But my son just got pneumonia, so he’s in bed for 10 days anyway SMH!)
When I was a senior in college 3 of my 4 roommates came down with chickenpox. It was crazy. They weren’t terribly sick, but they had to stay home and we all went a little nuts.
Glad you’ve been convinced to get the vaccine now. But I never understood this reasoning. It’s like saying, “We never get in car accidents so we don’t use seatbelts and we disable our airbags.”
I really think that the problem & “we never get the flu” rationalization is a little more complex.
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The flu vaccine is never 100% effective, or even close, because of variations in strains of seasonal flu. So I think there is some mental arithmetic going weighing perceived effectiveness vs. perceived risk.
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It’s only been in the past decade that the flu vaccine has been recommended for all adults — prior to 2009 it was limited to perceived higher risk groups. So for most of my adult life, the flu vaccine was something recommended for sick people and people over age 65. So I think that’s the source of the “I’m healthy, so I don’t need it” mindset. Additionally, pre-ACA it was something with a price tag attached for those of us who did not have great insurance – especially because back in the old days it wasn’t available through pharmacies.
So I’m not offering up a rationalization – but it just wasn’t something I was in the habit of thinking about in the past. So at least for me, it required something of a mental shift to perceive “flu shot” as something that applied to me.
It wasn’t the perception that “I never get the flu, so I don’t have to worry” – more like a mindset that minimizes the seriousness of the flu as well. (“We never get the flu, and if we do, we’ll only be sick a few days and recover quickly”).
I got one this year but didn’t in past years simply because it wasn’t top of mind and it was one of the lower priority things on my personal to-do list that didn’t get done. I do plan to be more disciplined about it in future years. In any case, for the future I’ll be in the over-65 age group so I won’t have to overcome the cognitive bias from ideas that got stuck in my brain decades ago.