When Tuition Is An Issue or How Much Do You Love your Kid

Parent Cafe
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<p>Here's a dilemma of some friends. Their son got into some solid state universities in the Northeast and wants to go to the larger ones where there's a good deal of school spirit. But then there are all the out-of-state fees associated with them. He was also accepted at his state's top public university, but it has little if any spirit and is in a rather bleak area. However, the total cost for a year's worth of education (tuititon, room & board, transportation, books, etc.) is far less than the out-of-state fee alone at the other schools.</p>

<p>The family has a dilemma: do they force their son to go to the in-state school at a far lesser cost where he will probably be miserable, hoping eventually that he will transfer to a better college in two years? Or do they bite a very big financial bullet and let him go to a bigger, more expensive out-of-state public and be happy?</p>

<p>Here's the caveat: The kid knew that the family would put the money out if he got into an elite school (which he didn't) and was told that if he didn't get in, that he'd have to go to an in-state school. Now the kid is trying to have it both ways: to persuade the parents to use the money that would've been used to send him to a Top 20 school and to pay for him go to a big rah-rah school. BTW, the kid will get a better education at the in-state school. </p>

<p>You're the parent. What do you do?</p>

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<p>What does "school spirit" mean? Competitive Division 1 athletics?</p>

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<p>Mainly yes. Big-time D-1 schools, although one is D-2 and D-3 depending on the sport. The in-state school is D-3.</p>

<p>One thing to note: the kid had hoped to be recruited for a football program at an elite school, but was told he'd be a walk-on, so despite good grades but lousy scores (which were actually quite good for a recruited athlete), the coaches didn't help him out with the adcoms. Even with remarkable recommendations and ECs, he was shut-out by the "elites". He's got one more chance at one by the end of this week, but it doesn't look good at all based on other rejections. Thus, family is now deliberating its contingency plan regarding the public unis.</p>

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<p>I guess my response would be: if they didn't want him to go to a certain school, why let him apply? All of this should have been discussed beforehand. </p>

<p>Now that it's done, however, I would say that if he wants to go to the more expensive schools, then he has to contribute.</p>

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<p>It sounds like in-state for this child might be NY--if it is, I can understand the child's perspective. Having gone to college in a "bleak" area I can commiserate. What's the cost difference? What we did with my son was "We can give you X$ (the cost of in-state) and if you choose out-of-state public you have to make up the difference with loans." He applied to some privates and got some merit money, and he applied to 3 out-of-state publics, (with one acceptance so far). I laid out all the costs for him. I even included potential loan repayment numbers and possible salary upon graduation so he could get a feel for the cost. This is something they will have to discuss as a family--and some of the consequences of choosing an out of state school, such as higher tuition and lesser quality of education must be brought to the table. This is such a difficult decision for many of us. I wish them luck!</p>

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<p>Quite honestly, I have a problem with the title of this thread. And I know my son would, also.</p>

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<p>Would another option be to take a year or two off, move to and establish residency in the state where he wants to go, then reapply and attend as a resident of that state?</p>

<p>So that leaves:
Option 1, parents pay for rah-rah factor. Let's call this the cake and eating it too option.
Option 2, kid pays for rah-rah factor with loans.
Option 3, kid waits for rah-rah factor while he establishes residency.</p>

<p>I like the title of this thread, which neatly sums up the dilemma these parents are in.</p>

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<p>I am disturbed that the kid is expecting his parents to pay more for an inferior education, putting rah rah over academic standards. It probably is what kept him out of top 20 schools to begin with. Now, he really wants to have his cake and eat it,too. He is trying to renegotiate the terms of the deal. If his parents have money to burn and don't worry that he will be partying most of the time rather than studying, let them do so. If not, they should stick to the deal that was struck, and tell their son to buckle down and study.<br>
I agree with Ctymomteacher. I don't like the title of the thread because it suggests that parental love can be 1. measured in dollars and 2. put partying in college above getting a decent education.</p>

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<p>Well, I think the title was slightly tongue in cheek. I'm concerned with the student just because it seems to me that the family did the right thing going in by having a frank discussion about finances, and now the student is trying to go back on the discussion. </p>

<p>On the other hand, I do have a little problem with the parents saying that they will pay top dollar for an "elite" school, but nothing else. Saying you'll pay $40,000 for Harvard but only $10,000 for anything else seems fairly arbitrary.</p>

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<p>First, the parents did not say Harvard or bust. The parents'definition of elite can be far more inclusive than HYPSM. Second, Harvard is not the only place where one has to pay "top dollars." There are many second tier colleges that cost just as much (Bennington comes to mind). The issue is one of value.</p>

<p>Last year, Songman made, in my opinion, the right decision in deciding to forego Skidmore for UMass-Amherst. While Skidmore is a good school, it did not seem to him (and to me) that it would provide that much better (if at all) of an education. In the case at hand, the parents are being asked to foot the bill for an INFERIOR college. To me, it's a no brainer.</p>

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<p>Definite tongue-in-cheek there with the title.
Now, did the kid apply only to the elite schools and the State schools, and nothing else..? And why would he apply to State schools that were not as good academically as his own?
I say go to the in-house State school, not only will he survive, but he will probably be very happy, and if he does well enough, try and transfer.</p>

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<p>I have a problem with the both the title and the idea of soliciting college help for one's friends/relatives/neighbors/coworkers etc...How do you know what is really going on in their family and why is it your business? Sorry, I don't mean to be harsh but it is just weird that's all.</p>

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<p>Thanks to everyone who've answered so far. There's a lot of good advice here for the family to ponder. As for the title, it was tongue-in-cheek (and perhaps Shakespearean in intent about Lear's admonition to Cordelia about the love that can be bought). </p>

<p>Back to this family. Yes, the in-state school is in NY and the publics are in surrounding Northeastern states. And yes, the in-state would give him the best education of all the schools where he's been accepted, but it is filled with "brainiacs" and considered "uncool". There were also a couple of Western state schools thrown in there as "safeties," to which he was also accepted but the family said no to them because of the "party-hearty" attitude attached to them. The "elite" schools he was applying to were several Patriot League schools and a couple of New England LACs with strong athletic programs. Because the latter schools did not offer athletic scholarships, but the family strongly believes (and I happen to agree in a couple of cases) that the financial sacrifice on the part of the family for this kid's professional future was well worth it because these schools would've stressed academics, they offered the deal that they did.</p>

<p>The consensus seems to be from this thread that if he wants to pay the out-of-state fee on his own, filling out all the forms himself and dealing with the various financial responsibilities himself, then he should go to one of the out-of-state publics. I would say the same thing. I'd also agree with his attending the in-state school for a couple of years, transfer "up" if he decides to and use the family money then. Also, the money that would've gone to the "elite" schools could also now be put toward graduate school, if that becomes an option.</p>

<p>What the son will miss out on, of course, will be some partying and being able to paint his face & chest in the school colors (which I really don't think he'd do). Regretably, during first semester of his senior year in high school, he was influenced by members of his football team that that was what college was all about: making memories so you can tell stories when you get home for vacations. The sad part is that this is a kid with a very sharp brain, takes AP courses and ended his junior year with a 3.8. But he apparently sabotaged himself first semester with his grades (mostly Bs) and didn't have time to pull them up second semester to make high honor roll in time for the mid-year report to go out, something he has historically done in high school after all the time and effort involved in being captain of a winning football team first semester.</p>

<p>Because he himself doesn't have the money, he'll probably wind up at the in-state public, devoting a couple of years to getting his act together academically and then seeing what happens. But he'll hate the campus life and miss out on that social part of college which is part of the "college experience." Another sad part of this dilemma is that this kid is really a terrific human being, a little mis-guided perhaps, but involved in the community, his church and at school. It seems for him that there'll be no happy ending to his college admissions story.</p>

<p>Any further comments are appreciated. Thanks again.</p>

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<p>weenie, it's not weird at all -- I was asked by the family to help with this problem. I too had a dilemma with it and thus this thread. Nothing more than that.</p>

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<p>First, I cannot think of many public universities in the northeast with that big of a rah rah factor, the exception being UConn. Second, how can one know that the student will get a better education at the in-state university. And finally, the general description does seem to be SUNY-Binghamton now known as Binghamton U. GO BOBCATS!!</p>

<p>There are 2 ways to look at this situation. Early on the parents set the ground rules and are sticking to them. On the other hand the parents evidently have the financial wherewithall to afford a UConn but are placing their financial interest above the desires of their son and, because college app fees are paid by either check or credit card, they must of know that he was applying to these universities. Many here abide by the notion that college choices should be left to the student, and while I do not necessary agree, a student should not be forced to attend a college he loaths either.</p>

<p>BTW, if the in-state choice is Binghamton, I grew up literally minutes from there and disliked it so much that I did not even apply. It is an institutional 60's architectural disaster with nothing of interest w/i walking distance of the campus. I would sympathize.</p>

<p>I think the solution is rather simple. Allow him to attend out of state but require him to hold down a 15 hr/week job(full time during the summer) and max out student loans. That should make up a big chunk of the out of state differential.</p>

<p>Forcing him to attend the instate choice could lead to years of resentment and alienation. That is risk is not worth the cost in my estimation. And having attended an "inferior" 2nd teir state university, I can tell you with a great deal of certainty that a great(and I really mean great) education can be obtained at these universities.</p>

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<p>He might enjoy being with brainiacs; and they might remind him that college is about learning, not about "building memories that you can tell when you get home on vacation."</p>

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<p>"School spirit" isn't worth money. A good education is worth money. My commitment to my children, as a point of reference, is to spend today what is necessary (or even beyond strictly necessary) to get my children a good education. Then my commitment is to maximize my contribution to their study at the best college they can get into (as chosen by them, with some adult consultation about the definition of "best"), to the maximum extent of my creditworthiness. They have to do the work to get into college, and to thrive while there.</p>

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<p>Gee, seems to me that they (all of them,parents and son) had a really stupid plan -Patriot League $$$$$,top NE LAC's $$$$$, socially unacceptable in-state public $, financially and academically unacceptable out of state public $$$$. Between (price-wise and academically) the Ritz-Carlton and Joe's Motor-On -Inn ,there weren't any choices?</p>

<p>I agree with empowering our youth to make their own life choices but not educational suicide. Wasn't anybody throwing a red flag up earlier in the process?</p>

<p>This is a perfect example of what happens when someone builds their list from the top down. "Love thy safety", and for that failure of judgment I think the parents ,under the facts we have, are somewhat complicit. 90% of the time we spend on this "game" is spent on finding wonderful and possibly less well-known financial and academic safety schools (or good bets if you prefer).</p>

<p>When we stumble on one of these gems it's like a birthday at my house. "Look what you (I) have to choose from!". D and I get all excited about the possibilities such a choice provides. We spent an hour ooh-ing and aah-ing at St. Mary's of Md. photos and stats after someone (oldman) filed a wonderful trip report recently.</p>

<p>I have said before, and I'll say again-my D -at this moment-might prefer her safest good bet school (an OOS public flagship Honor's College) when the choice is made, even over her top 20 schools (thinking ahead to grad school, the strong students in the HC, and she likes the school's spirit and pride). That is what makes it a good-bet.</p>

<p>I also find it somewhat hard to believe that a OOS public flagship is such an academic wasteland. I think all have an honors program and I am positive that many of that state's finest students would choose their in-state rah-rah Flagship.</p>

<p>At this horribly late date, I'm thinking that the parents BY ALLOWING HIM TO APPLY TO A SCHOOL THEY WON"T PAY FOR are as responsible for this fiasco as the kid WHO APPLIED TO A SCHOOL HE WOULDN'T HAPPILY ATTEND. </p>

<p>A reasonable compromise between this gang of three would be to let him attend the OOS public under a specific and rigorous academic plan including application to the schools honor's program when and if possible.The student could also take out the unsubsidized Stafford's at the max amount or work part-time or summers to make up the same amount. I would consider this a fair compromise from both perspectives.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
On the other hand, I do have a little problem with the parents saying that they will pay top dollar for an "elite" school, but nothing else. Saying you'll pay $40,000 for Harvard but only $10,000 for anything else seems fairly arbitrary.

[/quote]
I'm pretty much with the parents on this one. As a default we have an OK state school our kids can attend ... we have said we will pay for our kids to go to an elite school if they earn they way into one. If our kids decide that rather than go to state U they would rather go to a different, similar academic level to State U, and that costs significantly more than State U they can pony up the difference. I just described a black/white decision process ... there are also schools which are a lot more expensive than State U and better academically but not elite ... would we pay for those? Tougher call .. it depends on how much better academically and how muchmore expensive.</p>

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<p>"Here's the caveat: The kid knew that the family would put the money out if he got into an elite school (which he didn't) and was told that if he didn't get in, that he'd have to go to an in-state school."</p>

<p>Assuming that I did not select his financial safety, I would through the ball back in my kid's court. </p>

<p>After all, the kid presumably made the decision to apply to a financial safety that he didn't want to attend. Now, he's stuck in a situation of his own making.</p>

<p>He does have several options:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>He can go to the in-state school and find a way to be happy there. Right now, he may be claiming that he would hate it, but that is really a matter of personal choice.</p></li>
<li><p>He can go to the in-state school and do whatever it takes to transfer to a school that he can afford and that he likes better.</p></li>
<li><p>He can see if there are any colleges that are affordable and that he likes and that are still taking applications for fall semester. If there are, he can apply. Such colleges may include other in state schools that have more school spirit.</p></li>
<li><p>He can take a year off and apply to college again, making wiser decisions about his safeties.</p></li>
<li><p>He can borrow the money to make up the difference between the out of state places where he was accepted and the in-state college.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>(Frankly, if he was always so sure that those colleges were where he preferred to go, he should have been beating the bushes to raise scholarship money and to earn money to attend his dream schools. He shouldn't have been banking on a change of mind from his parents, who appear to have been very clear about their financial boundaries.)</p>

<p>And the subject matter of this is ridiculous. Setting boundaries on one's financial outlay for students' colleges doesn't indicate a lack of love for one's child, though manipulative teens may try to act like that's the case.</p>