When Women Become Men at Wellesley College (NY Times article)

Parents Forum
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<p>This is (IMO) an exceptionally well-written article about how women's colleges are having to deal with issues of gender, and the level to which inclusion means sacrificing what the women's colleges have historically stood for.
This morning, as I was having breakfast in a cafe, I could hear the women next to me discussing the article. I leaned in and asked if they were affiliated with Wellesley (my D is a senior there); one was a Mt Holyoke alum and we wound up having a friendly chat about the article itself. </p>

<p>To keep this a thoughtful discussion, it would be helpful to stay away from the rails of "people who feel the need to change gender are just crazypants" and work from the assumption that those who transition in this way are acting in good faith, doing so under professional supervision and from a deeply held desire to "right" their identity. It would also be helpful to stay away from the rails of "women's colleges are anachronistic and shouldn't exist"; point is, they do, and they're having to deal with this.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/19/magazine/when-women-become-men-at-wellesley-college.html?_r=0"&gt;http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/19/magazine/when-women-become-men-at-wellesley-college.html?_r=0&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I'll reserve my personal POV for now; gotta leave something for later!</p>

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<p>Mills College has a stated policy on transgender students.
<a href=“New policy clarifies 'female' for Mills College admission”>http://www.sfgate.com/education/article/New-policy-clarifies-female-for-Mills-College-5699337.php&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://www.mills.edu/academics/undergraduate/catalog/admission_applying.php”>http://www.mills.edu/academics/undergraduate/catalog/admission_applying.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>I read the article after receiving an email from the Pres. It’s something I’ve been thinking about for quite a while.</p>

<p>Let me say up front that I appreciate that gender identity is a fluid thing–as is sexuality, but that should be irrelevant to this issue–and I deplore the general tendency in society to try to force individuals into specific behavioral boxes with set definitions. Nevertheless…</p>

<p>My gut reaction has always been that if you firmly and absolutely feel you are a man, and plan to or have transitioned, you should not apply to a women’s college just because you can get in on a technicality. (I fully understand the position of a 17 yr old who hasn’t yet transitioned, or is in the process, and how they would feel safer at a women’s college. It is very, very difficult.)</p>

<p>If you firmly and absolutely feel you are a woman, and are living as a female, and are in the process of or have transitioned, then I think you could reasonably apply.</p>

<p>I also think that for transmen to complain about being marginalized at a women’s college because of the use of female-gendered classroom examples is bogus. If you feel <em>that</em> uncomfortable in an environment where being female is the default, it is an illustration of why you don’t belong at a women’s college, just about the ONLY educational setting in which that is the case. Transfer to a coed or all-male school.</p>

<p>I appreciated the fact that there was at least one transman who said he felt guilty for taking a spot away from a woman. This doesn’t mean that I consider him a lesser being of some kind. I consider him a man. Male students can spend time as exchange students at Wellesley, and take classes there, but the whole 4-year <em>sisterhood</em> they are not part of. Sorry, siblinghood does not cut it for me, when it comes to Wellesley.</p>

<p>Donning my flame-retardant suit…</p>

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<p>Wellesley is probably safer for any individual, male or female, just because it is 99+% female. So they shouldn’t admit a man just because he wants to feel safe.</p>

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<p>That’s what I was thinking. If you identify as a male, then why go to a women’s college? If you think you need to be “safer,” then why not attend a school that is predominantly female, but also has males.</p>

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<p>I think the Mills policy pretty much gets it right. (Full disclosure: I have family ties to Mills.) It’s a bit of a mountain-out-of-a-molehill situation: there aren’t really enough trans-anybodies to alter fundamentally the character of a women’s college. For people who were born and raised as women, that some of them should be uncertain about their gender identity and search for alternatives is legitimately a part of the spectrum of women’s experience, and I don’t see how that fundamentally undermines a women’s college. The case of transwomen is a little more ambiguous, but the numbers there are so small that, again, it’s not more than a theoretical threat. Compassion seems to be the right answer – if someone is living as a woman, she ought to be accepted as a woman, including by women. </p>

<p>Did anyone read the article in The New Yorker a month or so ago about this issue, which included a discussion about exclusing transwomen from the annual Michigan Womyn’s Music Festival? The anti-trans faction came off really badly. I don’t think there’s any chance they win that battle at the level of hearts and minds.</p>

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<p>@JHS I agree with you that compassion is appropriate. It is crazy when people start implying that transgirls in high school just want to use the women’s bathroom so they can peek at girls’ bodies (I’ve seen that assertion!). To be in a place where you are conflicted must be hard enough; and I can’t imagine anyone does this in a cavalier or thoughtless way. </p>

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<p>I’m standing next to Consolation. I do understand that transmen may feel more comfortable in a women’s college and that their numbers are small, so there is an argument to be made for compassion. Having gone to a girl’s high school, I really do believe that there is a value in the single sex envrionment that is hard to quantify. I do think transwomen should be allowed to attend.</p>

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<p>@donnaleigh, I know and have known several transwomen and transmen, and I know that no one undertakes this cavalierly. Compassion is absolutely appropriate. But that fact does not address the issue of a person who says he is a man and wants to be treated as a man choosing to apply to a women’s college.</p>

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<p>“It’s a bit of a mountain-out-of-a-molehill situation: there aren’t really enough trans-anybodies to alter fundamentally the character of a women’s college.”</p>

<p>You’re correct, of course, that having a dozen transmen walking around campus doesn’t fundamentally alter the character of a women’s college. From my perspective (and my daughter’s, fwiw), that’s no big deal.</p>

<p>But it’s not necessarily about character; it’s about identity and about the irony that the now-presence of men at a women’s college means that those who now are men get to dictate the terms of the college’s identity.</p>

<p>Examples:
There was controversy on campus in September when the pres made the standard welcome-back-to-campus speech, because she used language to the effect of “We are proud of our status as the premier women’s college” and “Our mission is to empower women to go out in the world”.</p>

<p>Something as innocuous as a Facebook post of “Hey ladies, come to the student center to learn about XYZ” turn into huge controversies. </p>

<p>Language that furthers the scope of a uniquely women’s college - “sisterhood,” BIg Sister / Little Sister rituals, etc. - has to be rewritten.</p>

<p>There’s even talk of changing the W alumnae website to use the word “alumni.”</p>

<p>I don’t have a single problem with a female who transitions to a male, and I wish him nothing but the best. And I think Wellesley can and should continue to be kind and accommodating, and I don’t think he should be forced to leave campus. But I find great irony that those who have, themselves, struggled and are now finally coming to terms with their own identity are asking the institution to compromise its identity.</p>

<p>Everything comes with choices. If you make the choice to “foresake” being a woman because you have realized you are really a man, that’s cool, but part of what you give up when you make that change is being part of a women’s college. </p>

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<p>Exactly, PG.</p>

<p>Something that has to be realized here is that Wellesley has repeatedly reaffirmed its dedication to the education of <em>women</em>, when other peer schools were either disappearing (Radcliffe, Pembroke) or going coed (Vassar, et al). Yale courted both Vassar and Wellesley as a means of going coed: Vassar chose to go coed on its own, and Wellesley chose to reaffirm its mission, and has flourished. This is important to us. Our sisterhood is important to us.</p>

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<p>IMO, the men should voluntarily leave. Or not apply in the first place if they know that is their identity/path.
The other option would be that the school go co-ed. (I have no problem with single-sex schools.) I think it is wrong for men to insist on “rights” at a women’s college. Just not really sure why they would want to go there, or why they thought men would be more accepted at a women’s college than a co-ed college. Does’t make sense to me. </p>

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<p>Simplifying: Mills will admit people who self-identify as women, including women who are questioning or “gender fluid,” and will not admit people who self-identify as men. A student who has been admitted will be permitted to finish even if things change while she is a student.</p>

<p>I have trouble believing that there are many people who, at the time of their college applications, are committed to living as men, but who want to attend a women’s college. Women’s colleges may feel like safe places to transition, but there are plenty of other colleges that should also feel safe in that dimension. I don’t have trouble believing that a certain number of women are going to decide, between their 17th and 21st birthdays, that they want to live as men. I think a women’s college can and should accommodate that process, as one of the paths a young woman’s life can take. I understand, however, if other students aren’t happy about being asked to behave as though the institution were co-educational because it has a handful of trans men.</p>

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<p>I sympathize for someone who is a transman, and I certainly agree that a women’s college is likely a physically and emotionally safer place than a co-ed college (though as always, it depends on the specific place - I bet Oberlin and Reed and Bard and Hampshire are pretty darn welcoming). However, I just really don’t like the idea that now that this person identifies and lives as a man, that the rest of the campus should lose what it stood for. His “inclusion” isn’t the primary purpose of Wellesley et al – the education and support of women is. And I think if he is offended by the use of “women’s college” or “ladies” or “sisterhood” or female pronouns at a women’s college, then I think he either needs to get over with grace, or leave. Wellesley is a place for women, not men, and he’s being grandfathered in (no pun intended) out of courtesy and grace and compassion. He can bend a little too. </p>

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<p>What a topic to discuss! I’d never have so dreamt this as a college student. This transgender process is very confusing to all, as it is often a process. Read about Warren Beatty’s child, Sam who used to be Cathlyn. He’s now a male, but also gay, which means looking for males as SO, and he wants to also be pregnant and bear a child one day. Wow, makes my head spin. Different from others who want to transition to become male, getting surgery and hormones have SOs who are female. So it’s not at all a one size fits all situation, and because that it is a process, makes it even more difficult. There are also those who do not want to identify with either gender and be gender neutral. </p>

<p>As for the women’s colleges, it’s up to each to figure out how to handle this. I would go with admissions to those who consider themselves female upon application, and support for those who want to transition into malehood while there, with the understanding that this is still a woman’s college. </p>

<p>The fact of the matter is that gender when it comes down to the science is established by the chromosomes whatever one wants be in terms of identity. That can be an issue when it so identified. Chaz Bono can look like a man, dance like a man, have the hormones of a man, identify as a man, but that DNA says female. </p>

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<p>“would go with admissions to those who consider themselves female upon application”</p>

<p>I would not be comfortable with my freshman daughter being roomed with a boy, even if said boy indicates that he intended to become a girl. </p>

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<p>@cptofthehouse “The fact of the matter is that gender when it comes down to the science is established by the chromosomes whatever one wants be in terms of identity.”</p>

<p>It’s not always that simple <a href=“What is intersex? | Intersex Society of North America”>http://www.isna.org/faq/what_is_intersex&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>“Just because you’re offended, doesn’t mean you’re right.” It is interesting to see the older W alums come out of the woodwork on this. I don’t blame them. I would too. </p>

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<p>I agree with the consensus expressed so far. I read the article with interest because we have Wellesley under consideration as a possible destination for our current high-school D, precisely because of the female empowerment / female leadership / sisterhood environment. I believe it to be egocentric for two or three trans students to demand the school change the mission and atmosphere it has had for years–a mission that has been very successfully implemented. If these students want a brotherhood, then there are other places to find it. Furthermore, part of the empowerment concept is refusing to be a victim, but rather to be strong and overcome petty slights. To me, the complaints of these trans students seem juvenile and too close to an attitude of victimhood. Oh poor us, you didn’t mention us in your speech, you made us feel like we don’t exist because you used the female pronoun even though it’s a women’s college, etc. It’s immature to expect the world to orient itself around your needs and what makes you feel good. Frankly, the fact that these students were allowed to attend, were permitted to participate in all activities and even run for office means Wellesley was very accommodating to them despite their new gender. That fact should have been accepted with gratitude and appreciation, not more demands. Timothy seems to have grasped that best. </p>

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<p>“Oh poor us, you didn’t mention us in your speech, you made us feel like we don’t exist because you used the female pronoun even though it’s a women’s college, etc.”</p>

<p>These are the “micro-aggressions” that make me roll my eyes. The transmen are not being denied any educational opportunities by the college, they’re not being asked to leave, and the community as a whole is very supportive. One of them wanted to join one of the societies (=akin to sororities) and they made him a honorary knight, which I thought was rather sweet of them. But when you choose to become a man, you give up some of the privileges of womenhood. It’s rather like revoking your citizenship and then still demanding that you be able to vote.</p>