Hopefully now that things are opening up (woohoo Broadway!), these kids will get a chance! Maybe you will get to see her on the big stage or screen soon.
1 Like
Iâd love that, being 10 miles from Manhattan we donât get the touring shows, her parents have of course traveled to see her. My son just perched some Broadway roulette tickets, so glad live shows are back!
2 Likes
@squirk Your concern is one we felt. Our D came from a town with a single public high school so understand âbig fish in a small pond.â
To get our D to appreciate the competitiveness of getting into top-tier MT programs, we shared that 1. most of the top-tier programs get ten times the amount of qualified applicants than they have spots available so itâs impossible to predict from where the applicants will receive offers and, 2. what each MT program is looking for in a given year can change (and can even do so within an applicantâs cycle) so just put your best foot forward and see who makes you an offer.
These facts did not âstress or spookâ our D before the process began, but she did want to apply to many different MT programs where she felt she would receive top training. However your concern is a valid one since each daughter or son will react differently and you know her best. Our D definitely wanted to put her best foot forward even after understanding these facts. I donât believe she was âstressedâ because inculcated was itâs âout of your hands so donât sweat it,â but Iâm not going to lie, going through the application process was definitely a rollercoaster ride; I think itâs part of the nature of the beast. Your idea of Moonifieds Jr. seems like a great one. We didnât do it (so not a recommendation based on personal experience) but it seems like a good first step.
While âtypeâ came up in conversation, she / we didnât dwell on it.
I also think itâs smart that you are considering NYUâs Early Decision path; itâs not a route that each family / student can or wants to take (we did not), but if it is one for you, I can say that several friends of ours are glad they applied early decision to NYU.
I donât know if you live in a NYC suburb or If your D has spent extensive time there, but if not, I strongly suggest a visit to it the summer before senior year begins because NYC has a very different vibe compared to even LA, Chicago, Dallas, etc. Some students love the vibe in New York City, are either comfortable or energized by it; enjoy the arts and cultural communities and offerings, and the campus within the city setting, hanging out at Washington Square Park etc.; others find they arenât looking for that at least not just yet or ever. I recommend travel only in this instance because NYC is such a different âanimalâ that should be experienced first hand to know whether itâs a potential fit.
Our D is only three weeks in at NSB but Iâm happy to report she has thoroughly enjoyed her experiences so far. She has loved how talented each of her NSB classmates is and the faculty teaching her classes. Sheâs been so busy, weâve only talked a bit, but she reported last night that she has a single, large, lecture class â I believe itâs called Ethics of Collaboration â taught online. All her other classes are taught in person. Of these other classes, she has private voice (one on one), and the other classes range in size between ten students to 15 students. Her only complaint so far is that only some (not all) of her dormâs common areas have opened so far (a precautionary COVID step sheâs told), but sheâs just booked space in other university buildings to do the rehearsing she requires, and sheâs had no difficulty doing that.
I have mentioned this before but we personally found school net price and other estimators to be accurate only 40% of the time on what our net price would be. Iâm sure glad we didnât knock off NYU as a school to apply to; that would have been one of the worst decisions we could have made.
1 Like
-
If this is the case, donât push her to be away now; she has plenty of time. Summer between Junior and Senior year could be a time to visit NYC.
-
There are plenty of great and different programs in the NYC region: NYU both NYU Tisch and NYU Steinhardt, MSM, Juilliard (students specialize in acting, voice or dance; not a MT major), Pace, Molloy, MMC, New School and the suburbs⊠Western CT State, Rider, Montclair State, etc.
Wow. Thanks to you for sharing all that.
We have visited NYC several times in the last few years, taking in many shows while we are there. While she was already getting into MT before those trips, I think the visits are what caused her to catch the Tisch âbugâ specifically. So, while staying in a swank hotel and seeing shows is not the same thing as going to college, I think she would indeed do well in that NYC milieu.
Hopefully, Moonifieds Jr. will open her eyes to the level of competition, but at the same time reaffirm that MT really is what she wants to do, and renew her sense of purpose.
3 Likes
Thatâs a good concern to have. Criteria I would consider in addition to geographic preference include:
- professional training and / or academic emphasis;
- programs that are strong across the board or that tend to emphasize one discipline over another;
- the extent to which a program has built-in flexibility;
- the degree to which there are elective offerings within the major;
- the degree to which a minor in a different field is possible;
- the degree to which current students in the program are as passionate about musical theatre and performing arts and engaged in it as you are;
- what alumni are doing and even the extent of alumni involvement with the program.
Itâs possible to find programs that will tick every box for you; it just takes some work but itâs worth the investment in order to target schools that are closer matches. I would attempt to complete this assessment by the summer between junior and senior year. Knowing the relative weight is important, but itâs also possible that some of the weighting could change as the student goes through the process. Theyâre learning about the programs and what they want out of a program as they go through the process. As I mentioned previously, I would not include expected net price as a criterion because I found that it is not always accurate so you may miss out on opportunities that would otherwise present themselves. Applicants should dig as far as they need into a program in order to know what itâs about and to determine whether they want to apply to the program or not.
With all that said, your D has PLENTY of time. No need to push all this now. Moonifieds Jr. is a fine start.
2 Likes
Outstanding post! Those program fits are really important. Some programs are heavy on dance, some arenât. Some do quite a bit of acting for the screen. Some donât. These variables are all important. The access and feasibility (could be very different answers between the two) of a minor is something many donât contemplate but important. In our Dâs case, she is quite a good writer and wants to explore writing shows. Also wants to explore directing. Is their support for those types of things?
All of these fit criteria will be helpful in selecting the right school within your set of choices. That set of choices will be determined mostly by the audition. So highly unlikely you get everything you want. Cast a wide net (wider than NYC) to improve the odds of being able to check off those boxes. Because what theyâre looking for is fluid, the more lottery tix you buy the better. Believe me, it can feel like that.
1 Like
I usually post on the music forum. You have some good responses above. Just 2 more little nuggets for you.
- Your D is in the âdreamâ phase which is normal imho. My D went through that as well. You may need to make some reality based commentsâŠand definitely check out programs to expose her to higher level programs. But I donât think you need to be overly concerned with the dream phase.
At some point, things will need to get ârealâ - Jr into Sr year. My D began to leave the dream world and enter reality as she began visiting schools. So I wouldnât worry too much in Soph year if she has her heads in the clouds (most kids do).
My D was going to NYU in Soph and Jr year. As a parent, I saidâŠgo ahead, auditionâŠbut if it costs more than thisâŠyouâll need to take out debtâŠand showed her what that meant. It scared her pants off. As she got more interested and invested in other schools, she did let NYU go. She simply couldnât get to the application (with all the others she wanted to do) and had figured out by that point that it was a very expensive schoolâŠand she could get a similar education elsewhere for less and have money left over for grad school (she did go into music and has an MM now) or a move to NY if desired.
- As a parent, you can put up guardrails. I required that my D find a non-audition school or 2 that she did actually like. And I gave her the financial parameters up front and let her be part of the decision making processâŠwith some caveats (non-audition schools and schools that gave nice scholarships). My attitude wasâŠthis is a lot of work and money for the parents tooâŠso I get a say in the list as well.
Final comment, your D will be smarter than you think, if you get her engaged over the next few years. Music/MT kids will have a sense of where they belong. They will talk. They will see the competition. Most donât want to appear foolish. She may be even reacting to the competition now by talking big. Our sheâs just dreaming. Who knows. Just keep exposing her, let her dreamâŠbc soon enough reality will set inâŠprobably in a year.
Iâm sure most veteran parents on this site remember âthe day of reckoningâ where dreams seemed about to die. Everyone has to walk through thatâŠand you will tooâŠjust be sure that you have put some guardrails upâŠeven if your D thinks they are not needed. Come Spring of Sr yearâŠthey may be.
Good luck!
7 Likes
Another great and thoughtful response. Thank you.
Itâs not so much the $$$ or financial parameters, as it is the awareness that this will be hard, and that sheâs not going to waltz into Tisch like she has so many other things to date.
As you said, taking her to stuff like Moonified Jr. will open her eyes a bit, and bring her down from the clouds. Once she sees the level of her competition, maybe that will cause her to re-think Tisch. But what I hope will happen is that she will realize âIf I truly want this, then I have my work cut out for me.â
I am a âplanner.â Every major career success Iâve had in my life was a result of me planning well in advance of the opportunity. So I admit I am projecting a bit (maybe more than âa bitâ), but the last thing I want for her is that awful feeling of regret - when it comes time for her to submit a pre-screen, I donât want her to regret not prepping more.
I want her to feel like she left nothing on the table - âI did everything I could to prepare, and gave it my very best effortâ - and be at peace with the results, whatever they may be.
1 Like
I think Moonfieds Jr. will give her a better idea of the competition and they are also pretty brutal in forcing kids to choose high reach, reach, fit and safety schools. And calling it competition is really not accurate. There will be at least 20 perfect girls there (legit triple threats) and 9 other girls who are astoundingly better in 2 or three of the areas. And that is all the girls except 1 
My son is like your D and is now a junior. The best of a small pool of people like him. Freshman year he was firm he would only go to top 15 schools. By sophomore year it was those 15 schools or take a gap year and reaudition. He still expected to get to choose between those 15 schools until the summer after sophomore year.
We did some school tours and it really hit him that fit is going to be more important than prestige, so his list went down from 15 to the two in that group that were a fit (wouldnât give up prestige still this summer). He did a tippy top summer program this summer and was solidly in the middle of the talent in that group. But he is a black man, so he has a better chance of getting in to some schools than an equally talented white man or woman of any race. And he has no chance regardless of the fact that he is twice as talented as the competition at certain schools. Then he found out his top school had so many black men accept last year that there are not going to be many offers for black men in the next couple of years from that school. So now a quarter into junior year, on his own (without me talking him down to earth), he has two top prestigious choices. He knows he will likely not get into his tippy top even if he is the very best, because they do not need black men.
My point being, its all kind of a crapshoot if you meet the minimum talent level and at least 75% of those auditioning meet the minimum level. And my S figured that out over time on his own.
The other thing is that we have visited a good number of schools now and my son is finally realizing, this is going to be very hard to get in anywhere. Visiting schools has been helpful to him, because he can see the fit and value schools off the beaten path might have for him. Your daughter seems to have at least considered that her fit is in NYC. She should at least try to have a summer experience there. My S has sworn off city schools after a summer experience at one because he did not like living in the city despite the fact that we live in a big city (just not downtown).
Tisch is not an unreasonable dream school if you can afford it and have high academics (unlike most schools, 50% of admission is academic). They need to fill a big class and finding the combination of people who will pay those prices and have the academics, makes it less of a lottery than many of the others.
We will see you in Dallas in November!
2 Likes
Thanks. Yeah, my D is not a triple threat - at least, not yet. Sheâs really strong in 2 of the 3 areas, as in your example. But sheâs only a sophomore, so she has some time to work on her weak link. As you and others have said, the more I expose her to stuff, the more âgroundedâ I hope she will become in terms of both commitment and expectations.
Sheâs strong academically, so that wonât hurt her chances at Tisch (we have indeed read what you stated about 50% of admission being academic). I wonât say the cost is chump change for us, but we can handle it if need be.
I am trying to encourage her to apply for early decision at Tisch if that is still where her heart is in 18 months. She is a (dyed) platinum blonde white girl, and sheâs very friendly and outgoing and personable, but sheâs also all âedgy,â right? My guess is that they get tons of those applying each year, so I hope that in applying early, she might ( 
) squeak in before the auditors decide they already have âtoo muchâ of her type.
Is your son in the Junior session this November, or the full-on âfor realâ Moonifieds?
Typically dance is the weak link with MT. Put her into some classes with adults. My daughter did this even with years of experience prior and they kicked her butt. But, she rose to the occasion. It will only help her. If sheâs a good dancer then put her into some master classes and find outâŠ
Once she goes to auditions for schools she will see many, many girls that look like her.
1 Like
NYU Tisch was my Dâs dream school for years also! She too was a big fish/little pond, so I was unsure of where her talent would rank when she is auditionig with so many other super talented kids. She was not a dancer at all, so I was worried this would also be a roadblock in getting into top/popular MT programs.
I agree, ED1 is the way to go if NYU is her top choice. My D was focused on uber-competitive MT programs, so I was sweating when she wasnât casting a very wide net. NYU releases ED1 in mid-December, so thankfully would give me a little time for her to widen her net if she didnât get into NYU. In the end she got her wish and was accepted! She did apply âall studiosâ which increased her chances. She also ready ED applicants to have a slight advantage to admission also. She is still hopeful for New School placement, however all the drama programs enable the students to take voice and dance classes as well. In the end, she is happy at any of the studios -just wanted NYU! Her auditions were remote and did not include dance (although she needed to upload a dance routine). I think that really helped her acceptance as well - with the audition being only acting & singing.
I would encourage your D to apply to other EA schools, especially those that do prescreens. It will give a good feel of how she is doing with prescreens and enable you to add more schools if the results are not as she expects. It was a sudden eye opener for my D when she did not pass the screen at school she had at the bottom of her list. Like the prevous poster mentioned, there alot of decisions made on the look/talent of what they need that year and not based on just talent. It is a crazy process!
2 Likes
Thanks for the reply. Mine is a dancer and an actor. While she can sing, too, she is weaker and less confident in that area.
I think she will wind up doing ED1 and âall studiosâ for Tisch as you recommended. Sheâs still a sophomore, so thereâs nothing pressing. I just hope she realizes that this time next year, things are going to get real.
2 Likes
Mine was a dancer first as well and didnât pivot until junior year, (never had private vocals until spring Jr year and never did a play or musical until then too, not counting elementary school 
). Get as much vocal training as you can! My kid also just worked every spare moment they had on practicing singing they could find. Having the acting makes a big difference as well. Aside from the couple schools that emphasize dance, most dont and take one or two dancers per class.
1 Like
I am going to weigh in here with a slightly different perspective.
I have coached kids for years for college auditions (disclaimer: I donate my time to no more than 5 kids a year who have strong potential but who donât have access to an expensive coach). I do this because I didnât have a mentor or anyone to guide me through the process many decades ago. If I had, I might have made different choices and my professional career would have gone differently. Most importantly, I was from a smaller city and did very well there with regional theatre (there was no childrenâs theatre in our city at the time). My âdream schoolâ (even back in the late 70s) was Tisch and I got in but could not attend (my parents could not afford it although I didnât completely understand that at the time and was devastated).
So far, all of the kids I have worked with have found their way into the right program for them. All of them have had top 10 MT/Acting offers but many have chosen other programs. Why? Because I discourage the notion of a dream school immediately. If that is an issue, I wonât work with them. (I also require them to have a minor planned other than theatre and to not plan to go into debt for a performing arts degree). I know this sounds harsh but much of my life experience could have been altered if I had known these things.
The first program I attended (instead of Tisch) was (and still is) highly-ranked, but I did not take the time to get to know the program or the faculty. That wasnât done then and there was no internet. I learned how important it is to have a director and faculty and peers where you feel comfortable and safe. One that encourages collaboration vs. competition. When you go to school for a conservatory-style education, you are essentially âmarryingâ the program for four years. You need to âdateâ them first and make sure that you will be happy. Many kids are so swayed by a dream school or brand, they do not take the time to get to know the program, curriculum, faculty and the life they will have for four years.
Sophomore year is way too early to discount things. One of the girls I am working with this year has never had a lead role. Ever. Her sophomore year, she did a show with me â the area premiere of Matilda as Lavender. She had asked me what she could do to prep for auditioning for college and I told her to get voice training. Fast forward to this year. She came back to me in August. I was expecting some progress, but with COVID I didnât know if she had made any impact. I suggested she consider BFA Acting - and then I heard her sing! She had worked incredibly hard and had her belt, head voice and mix. She was already a fantastic actor and now (so far) has gotten 45 callbacks. FORTY-FIVE!! For someone who has never had more than a supporting or ensemble role, this is mind-blowing. It only demonstrates that hard work and effort can play a huge part in all of this. It isnât only me who is shocked â her parentsâ minds are blown!
For all my kids, I make them research. They must get to know the programs. They must talk to people. Stalk Instagram. Find people who attend school there (or have recently graduated). That has helped every single one of my kids make their decision. Some of the best training I know of is not in NYC. There are some great programs there, but you can read the stories on here in decisions and after and see some of the experiences that others have had. I know that some make offers to so many kids in one class. You become one of a large group (30+). Some make offers to only 6 or 10 or 16. If you are someone who benefits for more personal training, then those large classes may not be for you.
And last, you have gotten great advice from @Twelfthman and @rickle1 (among others) and they are very wise, but hereâs the most important thing I can tell you and what has proven to be successful for all my kids in auditons â make sure your kid knows their type and their material reflects that. I know it sounds like such a simple thing, but knowing who they are and what they can play well makes a huge difference. Some people go in and attempt to show material that is very different in âtypeâ to show versatility. For some directors, that seems unfocused and like the student doesnât know who they are as an actor. I attribute the massive number of callbacks to the package that we created for my student. She skews younger, fresh-faced, girlish, innocent, full of wonder and her monologues and songs completely matched this âtype.â She was complimented several times on her choices. Since your daughter is a sophomore, she has a lot of time to explore this. Her monologues and songs should be within 5 years ('ish) of her chronological age. This can be tremendously difficult for this group. So much of this age group is overdone, but there are things out there. Make sure the songs have the ability to be âactedâ not songs that are more suited for vocal performance (many golden age songs can fall into this category). Acting through the music is really important.
It is completely usual to hear âI want to go to school in NYC.â I hear this from almost every kid. Heck, I said it myself. But there are truly amazing opportunities and experiences outside of NYC. Her goal should be to find the right training and opportunities and connections that will help her find her next path in her career. And it might not be NYC. It could be Chicago, Dallas, LA â London or even a summerstock musical in Michigan or a show on a cruise ship.
By the way, a lot of performing professionals have gone on to head up MT programs at several phenomenal programs such as Texas State (Kaitlin Hopkins, original cast of Bare, OG Bat Boy, She Loves Me), Shenandoah (Kevin Covert, original cast of Spamalot, OG Memphis, OG How 2 Suceed), and Missouri State (Bob Westerburg, original cast of Into the Woods, Sunday in the Park with George, OG The Secret Garden, Company, etc). Some new up-and-coming programs headed by working professionals are Oakland (Josh Young), Slippery Rock (Aaron Galligan-Stierle), and Stephens (Jennifer & John Hemphill) (and I know there are others as well). But this model has proved (so far) to be popular and good for students to learn from someone who has âbeen there, done that.â
10 Likes
@intheburbs and @onette - thanks for the comments.
Sheâs been taking voice for the last 18 months at school, as well as private weekly lessons. Itâs still not her strength, but her âthree-legged stoolâ is definitely more âbalancedâ than it was before.
I am sure that, eventually, DD will realize she canât (and shouldnât) put all her eggs in this one Tisch basket, and start broadening her scope. I still question whether she yet appreciates the challenge she is facing, but hopefully, sheâll recognize in due time that she has to lean into this.
3 Likes
Sometimes I wasnât sure if I was sharing everything I was learning with the kid as I was going- since I had a commute I could scroll for hours a week (lol), so depending on your relationship perhaps a more structured way to do that might help. Otherwise they might take your advice as âdoubt in their abilityâ vs your fear/anxiety of the process. Sit down and make a long list of schools like 40 plus, share their apps to acceptance rates with no judgement, conservatory vs trad campus/program, curriculum etc. Look at their online videos to see what your kid vibes with- they are quite different style wise. It all takes a lot of time so doing that in chunks helps. Location is one of many factors! There are benefits to not living in NY just yet. Time to grow and change, lower cost of living, etc. oh and @onette gives the BEST advice, so genuine and based off of real experience! 
Plus know that the kids talk - whether they have friends with similar goals or the online group, they tend to fixate on reputation and cool locations vs practical training. Plus non-theatre friends have never heard of some of these schools or programs.
With my kid it helped to think of the voice like the 10k hours to master something. They had that for dance but not voice. It helped them have realistic expectations for their growth and still is helpful as my kid continues to train and has grown so much over the past 1.5 years in school plus ongoing private vocal help from faculty and others - we are also not paying NYC rates for privates. This work ethic has benefited them greatly and it gets them noticed because they show up prepared and ready to work.
Also, as a dancer/actor, it can be quite stressful to do so many auditions where singing is the highest priority (most of the time), but also, most of the programs singing is the highest priority and even some of the best singers i know feel intimidated by their peers since they are all so talented. So make sure to take a close look at those acting curriculums because in hindsight we see many programs have far less acting than we assumed, and that became a major priority along the way.
3 Likes
This is fantastic advice!! This should be a sticky here. So many great schools that arenât in NY. Excellent post.
1 Like
@onette continues to provide great and relevant wisdom to all things MT. Her real knowledge and information on many programs is tremendous. Most importantly, she has a passion for helping these kids and I appreciate that. She was, in fact, quite helpful to me / my kid when asking her about specific programs two yrs ago.
One area of discussion was fitting material to who you are, not necessarily who you want to be. This is pretty important both now (for undergraduate auditions) and later (life). Some background: D is a very talented singer/ actor and decent mover. Has unusual range (both acting and singing), and commands the stage. Has always been told she was the star of the show regardless of role. Attended a PA HS that was pretty brutal. Show after show she would either cast as ensemble or a small character part vs. Lead. In pure singing/acting ability, it always bothered her and we would scratch our heads while seeing performance. Always thinking, âThat one is good but sheâs not better than DâŠâ Her program leader essentially told her she will not work as a leading lady type but will get tons of work as a character performer.
I spoke to @onette about this and it is a common issue. Her advice, which was good, was for her to lean in to her strengths, not just show off her ability. Made me think of the saying, âJust because you can, doesnât mean you should.â
Of course D never really took that to heart. After changing up her material about 2/3 though auditions, she was admitted into several strong MT programs. But even now, she still struggles with leaning in to her lane. Sheâs done quite well in school and her instructors have told her sheâs âBroadway Readyâ for a certain piece. Recently, the head of her program essentially said âYou have incredible talent and COULD play that role tomorrowâŠbut you will not get cast in certain types of roles because you are small, edgy. tough AND you donât actually sound that great singing those classic, angelic leading lady rolesâ He then went on to say, âYouâll find work as a character player (sound familiar D) and could be a lead in a certain type of show.â
Why am I sharing this? Two reasons: 1. Itâs important for them to know who they are and where to lean in, and 2. This doesnât stop once they get in a program. D is now auditioning for Summer Stock. Sheâs attending a conference that is essentially the professional version of Unifieds where sheâll audition for theater companies - kind of like the NFL combines if youâre familiar. FINALLY sheâs willing to accept what sheâs heard for yrs (from knowledgeable people that matter) and lean in to her lane with the right material for her goals. Does this mean sheâll never be a leading lady? No. But it will most likely be an edgy, gritty, tough character.
Funny, her HS math teacher used to call her Arya Starke. Maybe she should have listened to him. Iâve told her if she wanted to change that perception she would need to change her look, her intensity, etc. Probably doable, but not natural. Why not lean into your strengths? Really important AND sustainable.
6 Likes