What would the list look like if she is not recruited and wants to preserve a chance to walk on? Wouldn’t that eliminate some of these choices? Of course you don’t want to eliminate the safeties.
Next way to eliminate may be school spirit/student body turnout as spectators at sporting events.
Some of the LACs are remote and will require longer travel than others. I wouldn’t call Bowdoin rural. Amherst is the most racially diverse of this set of lacs, you will have to look up the rest, but there are clear differences in diversity.
In terms of personality fit…is your D extroverted or introverted? Nerdy, bookish, gregarious, etc? If you give us some info here posters can give their perceptions of which schools may fit better in those ways.
I think that as an international student, it’s hard to know.
I’d prefer an international student have a test - for those that are not blind.
IB is great. 4 languages is great. And we’ve seen some kids get into all schools and astound us.
Then there’s a gentleman yesterday - brilliant guy - and reading his words and what he wants to do - incredible.
And then he was shut out - and likely headed to Korea for school.
It’s really hard to know - maybe your stretches are all realistic and maybe not.
Hence I would add a lower tier UC - and maybe change out an F&M with an equal school but much easier admit (well I’d say equal) such as Depauw or Kalamazoo. F&M is a fine school but as a brand, not even close to the level of others you mentioned - and these other I mentioned (and there’s countless others) are surefire admits. And you need one - and it’s just too hard to evaluate.
PS - why would you not take the SAT ?? You have time to take it and see. It can only help and it can’t hurt (if not good you wouldn’t use).
D24 has taken the SAT and maxed at 1480. Considering yet another take to get to 1500+, though many colleges discount the result because it’s taken many times, few only look at the superscore without caring about how many times is taken
UCs can be freely added to increase the safeties
McGill should be solid admits based on IB predicted & declared Environmental Science major, Toronto solid match for the same reason.
Personality: slightly introvert, not nerdy/bookish
IMO, it’s absolutely worth your student taking the SAT again (or trying the ACT). Most schools in the US just look at super scores and for an international applicant, it can be another useful data point for admission.
Seems like Wet Coast is preferred, so in addition to UCs, keep Stanford, Pomona and Claremont McKenna on list.
I wouldn’t go East Coast at all (personally) with the list you are working with. Might keep WashU, and UChicago on the list just from ease of getting there (flights from Asia).
Then have Toronto and McGill as well. Maybe Barnard (again easy flight).
she try tested ACT and does better at SAT, so very much considering taking SAT again.
Chicago/John Hopkins will likely be dropped, as was Cornell. Difficult decision for CMU which has a very strong Steinbrenner Institute for Environmental Education and Research
One last comment. A 1480 SAT is 99th percentile. I realize for this list it’s at or under 25th percent.
I would look at each school independently.
Pomona, in their common data set, says a test is considered. Last year they show a 53% submitted rate.
Dartmouth rates it very important. I can’t find data on % submitted.
Stanford also says very important and had 72% submit. They likely want to see it.
So to me Pomona is a better chance than Stanford TO.
At least it’s a hypothesis…not sure if valid but something to think about.
You might also ask schools if they can provide acceptance rates for TO be non TO. they likely won’t but you never know or they might tell you unofficially.
You may want to figure out where it matters more and apply to those schools where it’s de emphasized if you ultimately don’t submit.
Edit - your latest list has different school sizes and locales. Can you study curriculums? Based on locales they might have different specialties of interest. That’s how you can cut three.
Edit #2 - not an exact similarity but you may find some useful nuggets in this thread.
One easier cut would be Pomona or Claremont. They are part of the same consortium and right by each other.
My experience at CMC was from a million years ago and have not really been much on Pomona campus but seem to be different set of kids at each from what I hear. Perhaps someone else can add better/more up to date insight.
McGill Mc Donalds Environmental (sc, eng…) majors requires 30, and 38 for Bieler (Faculty of Environment), so it’s a definite safety. With UCs (UCSC at the very least is a definite safety and I’d wager UCD, which is top-notch for her major, is too), she’s covered wrt large, prestigious universities she’s sure to get into.
Is F&M for the smaller college aspect? F&M is more Greek than many LACs and not especially environmentally conscious (though I know students are trying to remediate the situation).
Swimming for D3 is Denison, Kenyon, Emory.
I am not quite sure why she is interested in it, understanding this could help in winnowing the list.
For instance, if she likes the work hard/play hard idea (ie., intense studying during the week, intense partying/“letting loose” on the weekends) then F&M and Dartmouth are great.
It’s also extremely different in vibe from Chicago/Swarthmore/CMU which are dubbed “where fun goes to die” because of their intense, intellectual atmosphere. (A friend said -appreciatively- if the idea of spending an evening discussing fonts sounds fun to you, then UChicago is for you.)
Wesleyan or Pomona also very intellectual but perhaps not as “intensely” so. CMC would be closer to the F&M/Dartmouth vibe. Since both are part of the same consortium, I’d pick the one that fits her best (and why not Scripps // Barnard?)
LMU doesn’t have Greeks but does have religious requirements. Do you like Jesuit or Catholic education? Until recently an essay requirement involved commenting on a Papal quote so while the essay itself could be totally secular there has to be an awareness of the university’s founding faith. There’s also a well thought-out, complete core curriculum. https://academics.lmu.edu/corecurriculum/about/
How does she feel about a core curriculum? Flexibility in Gen Eds? Open curriculum (Amherst, Brown)?
1480 is definitely a positive for many places outside your reach/stretch (and even at some there). Not submitting it might let them assume she got a score in the 1200s (respectable but not at all in the same league).
I would recommend dropping F&M and/or LMU to free up one two spots.
I agree with others that you are set on safeties with McGill and the UCs.
(what is the fifth UC on the list - UCSC?)
Even though it likely won’t matter for admissions, can your daughter swim for McGill and/or UofT? Is that important to her?
For which D3 schools on your list can she swim (whether it helps with admissions or not)?
Where does your daughter intend on working after college? I think the relative reputation of these schools varies considerably by country.
thanks for all your comments & input. there are still many variables at play before the list is finalized:
improvement in swim times (this will play out in 8 weeks)
recruitment discussions (likely play out by early summer)
college visits (eally summer) which will also depends on recruit status.
LMU was selected as a safety, but could easily be replaced by another UC, and add another Stretch/Reach school. The religious dimension isn’t important to her.
McGill does recruit for swimming, the forms have been filled, but the process itself is slightly different from the US. Toronto is similar but the times are slightly faster than her current times.
Recruit potential: Amherst, Bowdoin, Claremont, Colby, Franklin & Marshall, Middlebury, Pomona, Swarthmore, Washington St Louis, Wesleyan
Walk-on potential: Brown, CMU, Dartmouth, John Hopkins, Toronto, Williams
No team: Stanford, LMU, UCs
School size: the schools on the list are generally smaller/LACs, with the larger schools added because of exceptional academics (Stanford, CMU, John Hopkins, Brown, Washington St Louis), because of the UCs counting as 1, or the predictability of the application process (Toronto, McGill)
I think if she likes smaller schools like LMU or F&M, a UC can’t substitute - these smaller colleges offer personalized attention and in many cases interactive classes, etc.
UCs offer topnotch, gigantic lectures and “falling through the cracks” is common.
Students respond differently depending on their personality … like, if she’s sick for 3 days, in one case someone may have the RA check on her and see if food can be brought from the dining hall, professors will ask classmates if something wrong and will respond when she emails to explain she’s sick v. no one will call or check because no one even noticed she was absent, no need to email the professor, it’s entirely up to her to figure out how to make up missed work or there may be no way for her to make it up…
(Painting with broad strokes but you get the idea.)
You still have till about August to finalize her list so uncertainty and taking time to winnow is perfectly normal.
Thanks for all your answers. The more we know the more we can help.
Are you familiar with College Navigator? It is the U.S. government’s more consumer-friendly website on college data. Under the Programs/Majors tab it will show how many students received a Bachelor’s, Master’s, and Doctorate in each major for the most recent year. So if you’re concerned about the breadth or depth of college offerings, it can be helpful to see how many majors there were in environmental science, or conservation biology, or other related fields. The larger the numbers, the likelier it is that there would be more depth/breadth available. For schools in a consortium (like Claremont, Johns Hopkins, Amherst, Swarthmore) you can also check the related universities’ offerings.
In looking at class offerings, don’t just look at the course bulletin with the description of classes. It will be important to look at the schedule of classes from the past several semesters…a school may offer a lot of classes, every two years, for example. That would be a very different experience from a school that offers more of its classes every semester or every year.
absolutely understand there are very substantial differences in experience between LAC and very large universities, but D will only really be able to decide this summer which one she prefers or absolutely wants.
note taken re College Navigator, though looking carefully through each program/website sissy provides plenty of information. Some important ones include associated centers dedicated to environmental programs such as Woods Hole