<p>jack, it comes from the IPEDS website (US Dept of Ed)</p>
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So, for these 17 top colleges/universities, 50% of all new freshman come from within 500 miles of campus. Pretty regional I'd say.
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not necessarily. It depends on what percentage of the population that lives within 500 miles of the school also. I would bet that for a school like Princeton having 49% of the students be from with 500 miles of the school has only a slight regional bias ... within 500 miles of Princeton are All of NE, NY, PA, NJ, MD, DE, Wash, DC , VA, WV, and maybe NC ... and bunch of the midwest also ... for example, I bet Cleveland. It may have 40% of the population within 500 miles of the school.</p>
<p>collegehelp: I think if you checked Duke's website, you'd probably be able to find the NC info for the class of 2005.</p>
<p>How about the number of New Yorkers at Penn?</p>
<p>danas-
I left off the NY line under Penn. It should be 302, about the same as NJ, which would make NY the #2 feeder state for Penn, after PA itself.</p>
<p>It has taken us awhile, but we have gotten a lot of the data. Thanks collegehelp and others for your contributions. </p>
<p>My question now is "does or should the data mean anything?" For example, how important is the % of in-state students or students from a certain region in determining student quality and the introduction of new ideas and the overall undergraduate environment? </p>
<p>Re student quality for the Top 20, it appears to me that it is relatively unaffected. Student quality is quite high at all of these colleges, irrespective of their location. Relative to the SAT scores for HYPSM (1473), all of these schools are well within 10% of that level. Likewise for Top 10% students as HYPSM average 94% while all of the Top 20 are within 20% of this level and the majority of the others are within 10%. I think it is clear that there are quality students all across the country and anyone looking for highly talented students will find them at any of these colleges. </p>
<p>Re new ideas, this is very hard to measure, but I think it is important to consider the concentrations that exist on a variety of college campuses and how this can affect student perspectives. A large concentration from a single state or one region COULD result in a campus environment that is not welcoming to outsiders and new ideas. I think that this underscores the value of campus visits and discussions with current and recent students about student attitudes and their variety and how this affects a campus. IMO, having a heavily liberal or heavily conservative campus is less attractive than one where there is a diversity of ideas. I would be very interested to read others' thoughts on this topic.</p>
<p>"Relative to the SAT scores for HYPSM (1473), all of these schools are well within 10% of that level."</p>
<p>hawkette, 10% of 1473 is 147 SAT points, which is a pretty big range.</p>
<p>"Top 10% students as HYPSM average 94% while all of the Top 20 are within 20% of this level and the majority of the others are within 10%."</p>
<p>Again, 20% of 94% would bring the range down to 75%, a pretty big range.</p>
<p>But, I agree that there are talented students at all of the top 20 schools and talented students are not confined to one region. For example, Rice, Stanford, Northwestern, Chicago, Emory, Washington U. Not to mention the publics like Michigan, Virginia, and Berkeley.</p>
<p>Regarding the diversity of ideas...
Higher ed has a liberal bias. Generally, there is a lack of political diversity everywhere. But, I think there are diverse ideas, in the broad sense, on even the most localized campuses. On the other hand, it really is cool to meet students from all over the country and world.</p>
<p>Just my two cents...</p>
<p>collegehelp,
I agree that the class rank numbers aren't that compelling. I have never been a big fan of class rank as the quality can vary so greatly from state to state and school district to school district. On SAT, all but Emory and Notre Dame are within 100 points of the HYPSM average.</p>
<p>Young people generally are more liberal and I agree that higher ed has a liberal bias. As for a geographically broad student body, I think that this could be a key weakness to a student at one of the UC campuses (7% or less OOS) or other large State Us like Texas (5% OOS), Florida (7%) Illinois (7%), to a lesser degree at Penn State (15%), U North Carolina (18%) and to an even less degree at U Virginia, W&M, U Michigan (all 33%).</p>
<p>
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It has taken us awhile, but we have gotten a lot of the data
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</p>
<p>Well, it's not <em>all</em> that helpful if some of the information listed is incorrect or incomplete (ie., leaving off NC for Duke--their largest "feeder state," and omitting NY for Penn, the second largest "feeder state" for that school.) Those are just two mistakes that were caught; how many others are incomplete?</p>
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I think that this could be a key weakness to a student at one of the UC campuses . . .
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</p>
<p>All public universities are there to educate more of their own state's students, than those from out-of-state. That's a given and will never change. California is so vast itself, I can't imagine lack of out-of-state students is a "weakness." If so, it certainly hasn't hurt their rankings. And I don't know about the other states, but large parts of NC are so full of transplants, that one would be hard-pressed to find too many native North Carolinians among that 82% in-state; that said, even if they all were born and bred in NC, I would never consider that a "weakness." ;)</p>
<p>Probably a stronger impression than I intended, but the 93%+ IS students at UCs, Texas, and Florida surely can't be considered a strength. As you might guess, I agree with collegehelp's comment above that "it really is cool to meet students from all over the country and world."</p>
<p>jack-
All the numbers I posted can be checked on the IPEDS website. They are open to everybody. You just have to figure out how to get your numbers. I would encourage you to keep checking. I think the numbers are solid. Just to clarify...The missing NC for Duke was not my error. The number was missing from the IPEDS data...probably Duke's error. The only ommission was the NY number for U Penn. I think that's pretty good accuracy.</p>
<p>
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"it really is cool to meet students from all over the country and world."
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</p>
<p>Yes, hawkette, and that's what I meant by saying that many states, NC specifically, have had such a massive influx of people in recent years, from across the U.S., and internationally, that the large percentage of in-state students can be very misleading. I can imagine that's very true for CA as well, though I don't know about the other states. It's absolutely true for NC, some areas more than others (ie., Raleigh/Durham and Charlotte areas). Again, I think in-state figures and what people imagine about those students can often be very misleading.</p>
<p>collegehelp: My problem is, you didn't bother to put up a corrected list. Also, given that most all of the other schools you mention have the most students from their own state, I'm surprised you didn't bother to question that NC wasn't even listed for Duke. So, I think it really was your error; you didn't question it, and you didn't bother to correct it, nor did you bother to correct the Penn error. Again, why not put up a corrected list, at least?</p>
<p>jack,
I would have to re-post the entire list. Not sure its worth it.</p>
<p>jack,
Valid points about new residents as states like CA, TX, FL have seen more than their fair share of immigrants and states like NC and VA have seen inflows due to business in areas like Research Triangle and northern Virginia. Not sure how to account for any of that and not sure how impactful any of this really is.</p>
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Not sure how to account for any of that and not sure how impactful any of this really is.
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</p>
<p>Well, if you thought the large number of in-state students at public universities was worth mentioning in the first place as a perceived "weakness," then the massive influx of newcomers to some of these states probably does have a real "impact."</p>
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I would have to re-post the entire list. Not sure its worth it.
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</p>
<p>You went to the trouble to research and post all this, but correcting these two glaring mistakes isn't "worth it?" Hmm . . . all you have to do is cut and paste the information you already posted, and correct these 2 rather glaring omissions. That's got to be a lot less work than your original research.</p>
<p>I don't get it. You guys want to do this research and post all this information-- and to be honest, I'm not sure "how impactful any of this is," either-- but at least go to the trouble to be accurate. Otherwise, you might just mislead people . . .</p>
<p>Jack,
I was referring to the importance of % of in-state students generally and to what that might mean to a school. Not to the influx of new residents into any given state. If we did have any hard data on the enrolled in-state students at these schools and how long they had been residents of the state, then that might have some minor value. But I doubt that any such thing is available. </p>
<p>The genesis of this thread was the frequent marketing by colleges of a "national student body" and "students from all 50 states and X number of countries around the world." I wanted to learn more about how valid these claims are and just how national/international these schools are. We gathered data on nearly 3/4 of the USNWR Top 20 and using that as a proxy for the entire group, it looks to me like the schools are more regional than they would like us to know. I think places like Rice, Emory, Vanderbilt get labelled as Southern schools and they do have large numbers of Southern students, but there are examples at premier colleges (Stanford, Caltech, Columbia, Cornell, etc) that likewise have high regional numbers and yet somehow don't get that same regional tag. </p>
<p>As for the state Us, I think the percentage of in-state students is a stark difference to the elite privates. Many (most?) students couldn't care less, but this bit of information might have some value to some students thinking about a UC school or U Texas or U Florida and their high IS numbers vs another school with a more broadly distributed student population.</p>
<p>I think it can be comforting to some students to go to an in-state university and be with others from their state. Not everyone wants culture shock when they go away to school.</p>
<p>"I wanted to learn more about how valid these claims are and just how national/international these schools are. We gathered data on nearly 3/4 of the USNWR Top 20 and using that as a proxy for the entire group, it looks to me like the schools are more regional than they would like us to know. I think places like Rice, Emory, Vanderbilt get labelled as Southern schools and they do have large numbers of Southern students, but there are examples at premier colleges (Stanford, Caltech, Columbia, Cornell, etc) that likewise have high regional numbers and yet somehow don't get that same regional tag."</p>
<p>-It's the liberal media I tells ya!....... But yea, I think this thread has a great deal of merit.... if even just to show that top schools aren't as 'national' as they want people to believe. The draw (relative prestige) of a school is much stronger in it's own region than it is nationally.</p>
<p>Ah, those wascally wabbits in the media. I should have thought of that sooner.</p>