<p>I certainly understand the need for cutting some public fringe benefits. Besides the end of collective bargaining rights it's a pretty fair way to balance the budget when you compare public employees to private workers. (It's better than ending BadgerCare anyways). </p>
<p>That said, I very much like that the democratic senators just up and left the state.</p>
<p>The governor wants to pass that bill without even negotiating some deals with his workers/unions. Everybody has to make sacrifices during this time, and those public workers understand that, but they should also have a say when their benefits/income are on the line. The governor is not listening to to their voices. </p>
<p>I agree: the end of collective bargaining is not right or fair at all. Our great-grandfathers worked hard in order to be able to form unions and fight for their working rights. Scott Walker has no right to take that away from them.
If he had just sat down with those unions and tried to make compromises with them, then everything would be ok just fine. Instead he just ignored their voices and that is why they have to protest at the capital. Not because they have to pay more pensions/healthcare benefits but because the governor wants to take away their rights to collectively bargain and having no say in their own salary. </p>
<p>The democratic senators do not have enough votes to prevent the bill from going through. The only way that they can help their people’s voices from being heard is to leave. From the reports I heard from, they are somewhere in Illinois.</p>
<p>He will go after private unions next.</p>
<p>Why would he? Taxpayers don’t pay for the salaries and benefits of private sector union employees. That is, unless the government makes the ill-advised decision to bail them out.</p>
<p>This isn’t about union busting. It’s about the state being broke, and falling $3.6 billion short of what they need. The money’s just not there. Many other states are in the same dire straits. </p>
<p>Continued high unemployment levels play a role in this. There’s fewer employed people paying taxes. Tax revenue has declined.</p>
<p>But it is about union busting. He could negotiate with the unions - they are prepared to make concessions. After all they are state residents, too, and want a fiscally viable government. And the state deals with private sector unions all the time, at least indirectly, whenever it contracts out work. Instead of leading to consensus, the governor has chosen to take a “take no prisoners” approach.</p>
<p>I expect it will eventually backfire, but only to his party’s and not necessarily his own detriment.</p>
<p>It seems I have to reiterate the underlying problem. The money to retain the status quo is not there.</p>
<p>If you want to keep things the way they are, what’s your plan for where the money is going to come from to pay for it?</p>
<p>Think higher taxes will do it? Cue the acceleration of jobs and taxpayers fleeing Wisconsin. Remember all the governors of other states recruiting Illinois businesses after Quinn raised taxes?
[NJ</a> governor looks to attract Illinois businesses | The Daily Illini](<a href=“http://www.dailyillini.com/news/us/2011/01/24/nj-governor-looks-to-attract-illinois-businesses]NJ”>http://www.dailyillini.com/news/us/2011/01/24/nj-governor-looks-to-attract-illinois-businesses)</p>
<p>Everybody understands that there is a deficit in Wisconsin. However, that does not mean that the governor is allowed to just end collective bargaining rights of workers! They will compromise with the governor as long as he just lets them. But he is not even willing to allow the unions to negotiate. He cannot just silence workers to help out his corporate big business buddies. </p>
<p>And why does the working class have to carry all of this weight? So the rich can get richer and the poor get poorer, is that it? You cannot just take, take, take from the working class and allow the rich people out there to just continue partying on the lake.</p>
<p>
Analyze who’s paying the taxes and who’s taking the taxes in your state. Compare share of income earned to share of taxes paid for the various income groups. Your opinion on who is taking from whom is inaccurate. </p>
<p>The stats in paragraph 5 of this article are a starting point. You can get more detailed stats if you wish to pursue it further.
[Income</a> Taxes Rank High](<a href=“http://www.wistax.org/news_releases/2009/0906_07Income.html]Income”>http://www.wistax.org/news_releases/2009/0906_07Income.html)</p>
<p>Walker would like to turn Wisconsin into a right to work state. Man I hate that phrase as much as the patriot act name. He wants to make the state even more “open for business”.</p>
<p>The legislative fiscal bureau projected a budget surplus for Wisconsin this year until Walker pushed through 3 bills in his first 3 weeks reducing taxes for those groups who supported him. He manufactured this year’s deficit. Now the public employees must pay for that. I don’t believe the numbers he spouts as they are spun as he see’s fit. And the Wisconsin Tax Payers Alliance is not a good source to cite in an objective discussion of the situation.</p>
<p>JiffsMom, are you a Wisconsin resident?</p>
<p>If the gov feels he can’t negotiate with the public unions then why not temporarily suspend collective bargaining -that would be reactionary enough IMO.</p>
<p>Looking at income taxes without examining every other sales or property tax, user fees, transit tax etc… is misleading. One must look at the total tax load in order to see its impact and on whom. </p>
<p>Not to mention taxes are based on policy - what do the people want government to pay for? What is important to them? There was a time when the GOP couldn’t spend enough on prisons. Or nationally on wars, prescription drug ben’s (both unfunded btw). The current Gov just allocated $170m for tax breaks. </p>
<p>Yes, the taxing pie is only so big, so it comes down to who gets and who receives. Rural counties receive many times the amount in taxes they contribute. Mabye it’s time to redistribute? That wouldn’t be fair. </p>
<p>I suppose the current WI electorate wants this bec. they elected Walker. Do they have a recall law in WI like CA?</p>
<p>I can’t imagine how my now deceased Grandfather - who was attacked by Pinkertons at Int’l Paper - would react to the idea of the right to collectively bargain being taken away. </p>
<p>In fact how would any group in WI react to having their rights taken away?</p>
<p>Part time, yes. I pay property tax in Wisconsin, which is also among the highest in the nation.
[The</a> Tax Foundation - Tax Research Areas > Wisconsin](<a href=“http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/topic/67.html]The”>http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/topic/67.html)</p>
<p>Wow… are you sure you don’t want to encourage job growth in Wisconsin?
[Walker</a> signs bill allowing tax breaks for companies offering new jobs](<a href=“http://www.weau.com/home/headlines/Walker_signs_bill_allowing_tax_breaks_for_companies_offering_new_jobs_115313479.html]Walker”>http://www.weau.com/home/headlines/Walker_signs_bill_allowing_tax_breaks_for_companies_offering_new_jobs_115313479.html)</p>
<p>Without those new jobs, and therefore the additional taxpayers, where do you think the money to support the public union employees’ salaries and benefits is going to come from?</p>
<p>And what budget surplus?
$2.2 billion deficit balloons to $3.3 billion without assumed spending cuts
[Report</a> on Wisconsin?s budget deficit contains hidden costs - JSOnline](<a href=“http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/109275069.html]Report”>http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/109275069.html)</p>
<p>Public employees, on average make less than private employees in WI. That includes benefits.</p>
<p>From your link:</p>
<p>“The governor signed a bill Friday that allows deductions worth between $92 and $316 per job depending on the size of the company and its tax bracket.”</p>
<p>Do you truly believe any company is going to create a job for those amounts? Employees are expensive. That is just paying someone extra for something they might do anyway. Jobs are created when there is demand for a product or service. That means when there are enough people who can afford the product or service. Henry Ford knew this.</p>
<p>The problem is the pensions and benefits. The money simply isn’t there to pay for them.
[Wisconsin</a> must reform public employee pensions – GazetteXtra](<a href=“http://gazettextra.com/news/2010/mar/08/wisconsin-must-reform-public-employee-pensions/]Wisconsin”>http://gazettextra.com/news/2010/mar/08/wisconsin-must-reform-public-employee-pensions/)</p>
<p>Where do you propose to get the money to pay for continuing the status quo?</p>
<p>
So it’s not that much of a tax break is it? And there really was no budget surplus.</p>
<p>And you’re right. That being not much of a tax break, companies will just choose to locate elsewhere where taxes are lower. Some other state will get those new jobs, and therefore additional taxpayers.</p>
<p>Who pays the collectively bargained salaries and benefits then?</p>
<p>You have to face the reality: There is no money</p>
<p>Where does the public stand on the issue? [WisPolitics.com:</a> Clarus Research Group: Clarus Poll: 64% of voters oppose government employee unions](<a href=“http://wispolitics.com/index.iml?Article=227384]WisPolitics.com:”>http://wispolitics.com/index.iml?Article=227384)</p>
<p>unless you are a cop, trooper, fire fighter, prison guard etc… what a piece of bs.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Part of the solution is to stop companies from creating tax havens in Delaware. They create subsidiaries where literally the only shareholder is their parent company; transfer all their intangibles; have the subsidiary lease the assets; and deduct these “expenses” for using these assets from their tax bills. All their income gets shifted from our state to Delaware (which has no state corporate income tax). </p>
<p>Maine and other states are beginning to pursue these “tax strategies” aggressively in court–and tax codes could be changed soon. It’s no different than the tax havens used in Cayman Islands for federal tax purposes, which Obama has been cracking down on lately.</p>
<p>When I read this story my mind flashed to an old episode of “Coach”; Luther was hiding from the pizza delivery guy so that he would miss the 30 minute delivery guarantee and Luther would get his pizza for free…laughing my rear off</p>